Recent Valve change limits creativity for server mods. (Petition)

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voogru

L1: Registered
Feb 17, 2008
39
31
I know you are going to ask why can't we use the officials? Well think of it this way; its a 3rd party program that circumvention the drop system. Oh you know like idler program?

Look if you really want to get anywhere with this, try and work out a deal with valve to make a pulg-in that works with non-official hats and weapons.

I'd be fine with not using official hats, but official weapons are pretty much required because the modified weapons are derived from the official weapons. You can't really change a weapons model in a elegant way.

Personally I'd like to see them add some sort of data to their hat models and then if those models are attached, block the rendering of those models and leave everything else alone.

No illegal hats, but everything else can still be attached.

As far as 'circumvention' of the drop system, I politely requested a feature that I intend to use on a weapon that my server would issue (attribute to change secondary weapon rate of fire), the response to this was positive.

Technically, custom weapons my server issue are "circumvention" of the drop system. If they didn't want me doing this, I don't think they would have been willing to add an attribute to the system.
 
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Mexican Apple Thief

L3: Junior Member<br>LEAD FARMER
Aug 23, 2008
345
60
Guys I don't see why you're so pissed about servers letting people wear hats. Because it's not fair to people how got a hat fair and square? And by fair and square we of course mean completely randomly? I mean come on you're all treating hats like they're this huge status symbol. They're cosmetic. That's all. That's all Valve wanted them to be. I don't treat hats like a status symbol. Valve doesn't treat hats like a status symbol. Only idiots treat hats like a status symbol. On his server he has every right to give people custom hats. And then Valve has every right to remove that functionality. And then after that he has every right to tell them why he thinks it's a mistake. I'm behind Voogru, I've played on his dodgeball server many times. The things they do on his servers are very creative.

Oh, and circumventing the drop system? Not even close. They're letting you wear a fake hat, not giving you a hat you can use on other servers. I have mods that replace the gibus with official hats, is that "cheating the great hat collection game"?

But anyway hats aside other quality mods are broken too.
 
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Sel

Banned
Feb 18, 2009
1,239
2,570
It's not understanding the situation, it's idiocy. In the opening post, it clearly states that Valve put in a new policy that prevents server modifications from attaching entities to players and having the attached entity be visible. It's idiotic how people will look at the title or briefly glance at the opening post and make a reply based off of that, instead of actually reading the opening post. There's no excuse.

Here's a news flash, it's their game and they can do what they want, owning a server for it doesn't give you special rights that let you do whatever you want. I encourage debate and you are certainly allowed to disagree. But cursing and sarcasm really aren't needed here.
 
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Mexican Apple Thief

L3: Junior Member<br>LEAD FARMER
Aug 23, 2008
345
60
Here's a news flash, it's their game and they can do what they want, owning a server for it doesn't give you special rights that let you do whatever you want.

Yeah he knows he's just presenting the issue to try and get Valve to reconsider. He's not accusing Valve of being evil or breaking some agreement or something. In the end if Valve decides not to fix it we'll just accept it and won't complain. But until we know their reasoning we want them to see we liked it before.
 
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voogru

L1: Registered
Feb 17, 2008
39
31
Here's a news flash, it's their game and they can do what they want, owning a server for it doesn't give you special rights that let you do whatever you want.

Their game requires those servers in order for players who buy a 100% multiplayer game, to even play the game.

They get away with the matchmaking in L4D the way it is because it's only 4 to 8 players. Try running 16, 20, 24, or 32 players off of average internet connections.

They could run their own servers, but then they would have to deal with the logistics of maintaining and operating servers and dealing with bad players and all of the various little bullshit things server operators have to deal with.

Valve could do whatever they damn well please, I know.

They could ban custom maps too on the account that somebody could make maps similar to DLC maps.

Is that when you start caring, when it directly affects you?
 
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Shabow

L1: Registered
Mar 22, 2010
5
1
Figured I would come on here and give Voogru some support. I am a staff member over at Free Frag Network, one of the largest and most popular TF2 communities around.

Before this update we were hard at work on developing a Gun Game server that we would have hoped matched the popularity of our Freezetag server. Unfortunately, given this new update, we have to start from scratch in the development process. The plugin is now completely broken.

This isn't about just hats people. Communities like Voogru and Free Frag need game modes like this to keep people coming in and playing.
 

Cerious

L420: High Member
Aug 10, 2008
455
133
Here's a news flash, it's their game and they can do what they want, owning a server for it doesn't give you special rights that let you do whatever you want.

1. You don't even understand the point of my post. That's a fucking news flash for you, smartass! I'm talking about how people don't even read the OP, and you're yammering off about how owning a server doesn't give you special rights.

2. Owning a server DOES give you the right to do whatever you want with it. If I paid $30 to play TF2 on MY own server, I better damn well be able to do what I want (such as banning little pissants, spamming music over alltalk, using whatever custom items I want to, etc.) Obviously, people aren't going to be playing on it, but still, the concept stands. If you don't like it, you don't have to play there. Simple as can be... and yet you still manage to misunderstand that entire fucking concept!

3. The changes that Valve created affect much, much more than these hat mods, in a way that will hurt the TF2 mod community for a very, very long time if not changed. This is like the US government banning cars, and idiots cheering for it because they don't have to see smart cars driving around.

4. How do YOU know that that is what Valve wanted to do? They've always been unbelievably mod-friendly, all the way back to the days of HL1.

In short, please go back to reading comprehension school.
 
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YM

LVL100 YM
aa
Dec 5, 2007
7,135
6,056
What a typical American view, doesn't make you any less wrong though!

Pull your head out of your arse.

Prophunt was broken by this, a fun game mode.
Scoutbros was broken by this, a fun game mode.
The other single player tf2 platformer that was made was also probably broken by this, a fun game mode.
One community, working on a gun game mod for TF2 have had their dreams crushed, That probably would have been a fun game mode too.

Any future mod, that would want to parent stuff to the player (not an uncommon thing to want to do) is now impossible to make.

Tf2 thrives off an active community, making new content for it. If there wasn't that community TF2 would be just another dying fps, 3 years from it's release but it isn't.
Valve is grown from modders, and this move has thwarted a whole wave of mods.
 

Cerious

L420: High Member
Aug 10, 2008
455
133
What a typical American view, doesn't make you any less wrong though!

There's nobody telling you what you can and can't do. Some of it may be morally wrong but it's not illegal (unless the police show up at your door).

Also congrats on ignoring the rest of the post. Awaiting your smartass reply for this one. What parts are you going to leave out from this one though?
 

LordNor

L3: Member
Jun 24, 2009
134
15
I agree with Selentic; This is their game and thus...not yours'. Valve, I think, is actually correct in doing this because your program/plugin/thingymabob goes around what Valve has implemented in the game; namely aesthetic items. Now I understand that these are purely, as I said, aesthetic, but it is again their game and you do get said items from playing enough...So this is more of a good incentive to play and a good example for the community that Valve does not want the system they created to become superfluous.

Idk about you guys, but TF2 is an awesome game by itself. I don't need mods or unnecessary attachments to make me feel happy.
 
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Sel

Banned
Feb 18, 2009
1,239
2,570
There's nobody telling you what you can and can't do. Some of it may be morally wrong but it's not illegal (unless the police show up at your door).

Well actually there's this person telling you what you can and can't do, they're this company called Valve (they made the game in case you didn't know!)

Also congrats on ignoring the rest of the post. Awaiting your smartass reply for this one. What parts are you going to leave out from this one though?

You mean the rest that wasn't even worth arguing over?

.
 

YM

LVL100 YM
aa
Dec 5, 2007
7,135
6,056
I agree with Selentic; This is their game and thus...not yours'. Valve, I think, is actually correct in doing this because your program/plugin/thingymabob goes around what Valve has implemented in the game; namely aesthetic items. Now I understand that these are purely, as I said, aesthetic, but it is again their game and you do get said items from playing enough...So this is more of a good incentive to play and a good example for the community that Valve does not want the system they created to become superfluous.

Idk about you guys, but TF2 is an awesome game by itself. I don't need mods or unnecessary attachments to make me feel happy.

Prophunt was broken by this, a fun game mode.
Scoutbros was broken by this, a fun game mode.
The other single player tf2 platformer that was made was also probably broken by this, a fun game mode.
One community, working on a gun game mod for TF2 have had their dreams crushed, That probably would have been a fun game mode too.

Any future mod, that would want to parent stuff to the player (not an uncommon thing to want to do) is now impossible to make.

Tf2 thrives off an active community, making new content for it. If there wasn't that community TF2 would be just another dying fps, 3 years from it's release but it isn't.
Valve is grown from modders, and this move has thwarted a whole wave of mods.

This hat business is one of the smaller things that its broken.
 

LordNor

L3: Member
Jun 24, 2009
134
15
Pull your head out of your arse.

Prophunt was broken by this, a fun game mode.
Scoutbros was broken by this, a fun game mode.
The other single player tf2 platformer that was made was also probably broken by this, a fun game mode.
One community, working on a gun game mod for TF2 have had their dreams crushed, That probably would have been a fun game mode too.

Any future mod, that would want to parent stuff to the player (not an uncommon thing to want to do) is now impossible to make.

Tf2 thrives off an active community, making new content for it. If there wasn't that community TF2 would be just another dying fps, 3 years from it's release but it isn't.
Valve is grown from modders, and this move has thwarted a whole wave of mods.

Ad Hominem is never fun; I still love you though :D
 

voogru

L1: Registered
Feb 17, 2008
39
31
Idk about you guys, but TF2 is an awesome game by itself. I don't need mods or unnecessary attachments to make me feel happy.

So then what are you doing in a community that makes custom, community provided maps?

Why not just stick with the standard valve maps?
 

Sel

Banned
Feb 18, 2009
1,239
2,570
So then what are you doing in a community that makes custom, community provided maps?

Why not just stick with the standard valve maps?

You're an awfully dimwitted individual if you're lumping custom maps, and custom server plugins into the same category.

In fact, every second post you've made you've been saying something along the lines of WHAT IF VALVE REMOVED CUSTOM MAPS. Are you honestly not able to pick up on how and why this isn't a valid point yet?

Christ.
 

LordNor

L3: Member
Jun 24, 2009
134
15
So then what are you doing in a community that makes custom, community provided maps?

Why not just stick with the standard valve maps?

Because not everything is black and white: in terms of where customizing (in all sense of the word) starts to become ridiculous. For me custom maps are pretty damn cool, but when plugins start to become overwhelming and game-modes become more "non-classic TF2" style I usually stray away from those.
 

drp

aa
Oct 25, 2007
2,273
2,628
sign the petition or dont. the stupid bickering stops here.
 
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