Stopped reading here, it's a real tragedy ain't it
That's too bad then, the rest of the post would have mentioned how hats are not the only thing this breaks.
Recent Valve change limits creativity for server mods. (Petition)
- Thread starter voogru
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That's too bad then, the rest of the post would have mentioned how hats are not the only thing this breaks.
If it breaks a bunch of other cool features and gameplay posibilities, you'd still be for it? Throw out the baby with the bath water?
You know if they disable custom maps it will prevent all of those shitty maps from ever being made too.
It also breaks super scout bros, it broke prophunt, it breaks any situation where a mapper might want to put a beacon on a player or something like that.
@voogru, the source of hostility is clear now, you've marketed this to us totally wrong. If you'd put it in terms of the game modes it's broken instead of the fact its broken your hat mod, it would have gone down immeasurably better.
Everyone just sees "waaaa my hat mod is broke" instead of "Valve tramples all over prophunt, super scout bros and many creative game modes"
I think you may be right, but the reason for the "hats" being the trigger word is because it's the most apparent issue, which is why I chose to use that form.
It's also the most used feature of this mechanic, but there are other uses for this mechanic other than hats.
Other forums (alliedmods) were much more accepting, probably because maybe they read the whole post. I discuss the other mod issues in the later points.
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Well a large portion of the users here like totally vanilla tf2, like myself. whilst presumably everyone signed up to alliedmods is far more open to server mods of all kinds.
We're less open to server mods because trying to make maps that work for all possible combinations of crazy things people do to their servers is impossible. So we focus on just one or two types of server, 24 man vanilla and standard 6v6 setups mostly.
We're less open to server mods because trying to make maps that work for all possible combinations of crazy things people do to their servers is impossible. So we focus on just one or two types of server, 24 man vanilla and standard 6v6 setups mostly.
The trouble is, vanilla to me means vanilla tf2 maps, meaning only official valve maps.
I mistakenly assumed that map authors as part of the content creation arm of TF2 would be accepting of mods that may increase the creativity of their maps.
The most blatant example is PropHunt and the PropHunt maps, at least valve scrambled to make a workaround for PropHunt but the policy hurts other uses for this feature future plug-in authors may think of and this can trickle down to maps since new gameplay modes usually need new interesting maps.
Dodgeball is another example, as dodgeball maps have the undocumented ability to override weapons and to issue custom weapons to players with modified attributes. This kind of change makes it possible for a map to become some sort of "rocket arena" and give players a pimp rocket launcher, of course theres tons of other possibilities as well.
I've been considering possibly releasing the mapper defined custom weapons as a public plug-in.
It's not fully implemented yet, but the basics work and can be seen on my dodgeball servers.
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Cerious
L420: High Member
- Aug 10, 2008
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The amount of idiocy in this thread is shocking.
It doesn't even matter what the server owners are doing with this, because it's their server and they can do whatever they want with it. Nobody's forcing this stuff down your throat, for christ's sake! This hurts a lot of other mods, not only the ones that exist right now but the ones that could also be developed in the future. PropHunt was so popular so it got a nice, neat workaround, but there ARE other mods out there, and they also rely on the ability to use serverside custom weapons.
Quite frankly, because of what Valve did, current plugins utilizing this feature are broken AND future ones will never even come to be. If this doesn't get fixed, then the mod community for TF2 is as good as dead, because nothing really "new" is going to get developed.
It doesn't even matter what the server owners are doing with this, because it's their server and they can do whatever they want with it. Nobody's forcing this stuff down your throat, for christ's sake! This hurts a lot of other mods, not only the ones that exist right now but the ones that could also be developed in the future. PropHunt was so popular so it got a nice, neat workaround, but there ARE other mods out there, and they also rely on the ability to use serverside custom weapons.
Quite frankly, because of what Valve did, current plugins utilizing this feature are broken AND future ones will never even come to be. If this doesn't get fixed, then the mod community for TF2 is as good as dead, because nothing really "new" is going to get developed.
Leminnes
aa
- Jan 20, 2010
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I think you're confusing idiocy with not understanding the situation. It seems more to me that people were unaware of how this featured was used. Also, voogru's (and your's) apparent hostility towards people voicing an opposing opinion is certainly not helping. I'm on the side of mods, I think they should be allowed if they're not breaking the game or making new gamemodes. But tone it down a notch and try to make people understand calmly. And, if they don't, don't bother trying. They're not important anyway, Valve is.
Cerious
L420: High Member
- Aug 10, 2008
- 455
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It's not understanding the situation, it's idiocy. In the opening post, it clearly states that Valve put in a new policy that prevents server modifications from attaching entities to players and having the attached entity be visible. It's idiotic how people will look at the title or briefly glance at the opening post and make a reply based off of that, instead of actually reading the opening post. There's no excuse.
Leminnes
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- Jan 20, 2010
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Call it what you want, but all you're going to do is make people angry. If that's your intention, then keep doing what you're doing.
Haha, good plan.
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- Dec 28, 2008
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Right, so let me get this. You're upset at the fact it broke mods for custom weapons, hats and other things. I can understand server owners being annoyed. I can understand you trying to spread your word. What I don't understand is this expectation that everybody will be with your cause, like it's straight from the Bible or something. I also disagree with the fact this has been featured, like its trying to impose somebody's views onto everybody. Did Valve reply to your email? If so I'd like to read it. From what I've seen, and read, you haven't given me any reason to sign the petition. I never play prophunt, and I hate custom weapon/hat mods. Until I hear /why/ Valve removed the ability I can't join either side. They may have done it to stop a game breaking bug for all I know right now. Until I have all the information I can't rightly take either side.
It's not that, the response was near hostile. "LOL U LOST HATS CRY SOME MORE" kind of comments without reading the rest of the posts. Maybe I made a mistake by "hats" being the primary issue for this forum and should have focused on the two other issues more.
"I never play any non-valve maps and I hate custom maps, therefore I don't care about valve breaking them"
Same exact logic.
I suspect it's to protect the hats that are used as part of promotions, which I completely understand, but it's going to far to break an entire mechanic over it.
There has to be an alternative way to protect the promotional/dlc type content that doesn't break every form of attaching stuff to the player.
I can't really see a reason why you wouldn't want this fixed. It's not really a problem how to fix this, even by valve time it's not going to consume a whole lot of effort. Usually a debate would arise if there were a possible downside (ie. buffing the pyro) but in this case it would only be an improvement. As midget mentioned, there probably is a reason why valve removed this functionality but it is probably that valve can get mods working again and keep whatever they fixed.
- Dec 28, 2008
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I'm fine if people don't give a crap about non-Valve maps, it's up to them, I also understand where you are coming from about Valve breaking stuff which hinders the creativity of server owners and mod creators. I feel for you guys, I really do, I know we'd be pissed if Valve broke something in custom maps, but then most of the rest of the community probably wouldn't give a crap if they play 24/7 2fort or dustbowl. If you see where I'm coming from, you can't expect everybody to rally around your cause. Valve probably shouldn't have broke what they did, however if it was the only option, then they may have had to do it. As far as I know, Valve broke Prophunt to an extent as well, reading after that post in the alliedmods forum thread.
Sorry if I appear to be an ass or otherwise, but I still haven't heard from both sides. Actually, I'll email Robin, since either you won't post the response from Valve's email to you, or you haven't received one yet. I hope you do find away around the problem, it's just a problem I can't really relate to, since I never played on any of the servers running these mods. Good luck to you in your endeavours and I do hope everything does get fixed.
- Apr 19, 2009
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Alright after looking over all the facts I am come up with a hopefully more informed opinion.
I do support giving servers back the ability to have custom weapons and hats. However, I don't support the circumvention of the drop system.
I would support this if you came up with a way that you could only use the custom hats and not the official ones.
I know you are going to ask why can't we use the officials? Well think of it this way; its a 3rd party program that circumvention the drop system. Oh you know like idler program?
Look if you really want to get anywhere with this, try and work out a deal with valve to make a pulg-in that works with non-official hats and weapons.
I do support giving servers back the ability to have custom weapons and hats. However, I don't support the circumvention of the drop system.
I would support this if you came up with a way that you could only use the custom hats and not the official ones.
I know you are going to ask why can't we use the officials? Well think of it this way; its a 3rd party program that circumvention the drop system. Oh you know like idler program?
Look if you really want to get anywhere with this, try and work out a deal with valve to make a pulg-in that works with non-official hats and weapons.
Seeing for the mapper's and server operator's POV. Valve is constantly adding content to the game and make less people get access to it. Especially, they've cheated metascore by giving the impression it was an ideal pick-up-and-play game, and then ruining it with medic update and so forth. I believe there will be no dedicated servers in Portal 2, etc. Reason? They want money, they want more people playing their games. People are stupid. They get confused by custom server rules, they complain about it to Valve. Valve disables them. That's why games getting less mod friendly (oh MW2).
Solution? Teach people (the hardest, most people just use other people) to use custom mods, make easy tutorials, advertise them... Impossible for newbies. Game industry is maturing, it's meaningless and violent. Oh well... Natural selection?
Solution? Teach people (the hardest, most people just use other people) to use custom mods, make easy tutorials, advertise them... Impossible for newbies. Game industry is maturing, it's meaningless and violent. Oh well... Natural selection?
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