Metalwood

sniprpenguin

L6: Sharp Member
Mar 14, 2008
266
258
CTF_Metalwood is the Major Mapping Competition #4 entry by sniprpenguin.

Set in the middle of a forest, right after a rainstorm, the two teams must try to capture each other's flag. The gameplay is standard CTF.

The main design goals behind this map were to create areas that would be interesting to play in, both gameplay-wise and visually, as well as cater to the competitive audience. This goal lead to the design of the figure-8 layout above. There are other considerations taken that I'm keeping to myself. :p

One thing: Yes, the map is on the large side. But I was working under the idea that fast gameplay =/= small map.

I'd like to thank my computer for not crashing on me as I work from a blank slate to make this and Acegikmo for his Environment Gallery.

I'd like to thank the Swamp Team for the railings, and SiniStaR for his Blue Train.
 
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sniprpenguin

L6: Sharp Member
Mar 14, 2008
266
258
OK, before I get requests for pics of the map, it's not letting me upload them for some reason. The forum's giving me:
"Warning: fopen(/tmp/phpqKOIJD) [function.fopen]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in [path]/includes/class_image.php on line 333"

In the mean-time, here's some links to them.

The Layout:
http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww284/sniprpenguin/ctf_metalwood_a20006.jpg
Some Areas:
http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww284/sniprpenguin/ctf_metalwood_a20004.jpg
http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww284/sniprpenguin/ctf_metalwood_a20000.jpg
 

Ezekel

L11: Posh Member
Dec 16, 2008
818
245
1st thing i thought when i looked at your layout was:
O.O that's pretty complicated looking.

then again, i might be mistaken. top down views can never give a superb idea of how the map will play and feel
 

Colt Seavers

L6: Sharp Member
Dec 30, 2007
288
82
Looks very big to me. I could be mistaken. I'd definitely try to simplify it to ensure a fast-ish scoring potential. Doesn't mean it has to score fast - but if you are playing well as a team, distance and route shouldn't be the thing stopping you destroy the competition.

Take it with a pinch of salt but - it's something i do wrong in all my maps : my biggest failing atm - but that doesn't mean I can't spot it in others ;)
 

sniprpenguin

L6: Sharp Member
Mar 14, 2008
266
258
Yay, pics work!

And work has already begun on a3. Also, this will serve as a gameday bump for this Saturday...
 

sniprpenguin

L6: Sharp Member
Mar 14, 2008
266
258
May I suggest more lights or brighter lights? It looks rather dark at the moment.

It is supposed to be a dark map, but lights have always been my bane.

wtf is a metalwood

I wanted Nightshift, but nightshift was taken so I asked some friends to name it and that's what they came up with. And as far as I can tell, it is a metal wood.
 

Boylee

pew pew pew
aa
Apr 29, 2008
1,068
709
Even dark maps should have a fairly high ambient light level as it allows players to see the class silhouettes.
However, looking at the screenies again it may have just been my monitor at work, so discount that comment for the time being.

Maybe using the name of a type of metal e.g. ironwood as that kind of implies a wood with metal-like properties (like hardness), or alternatively a wood, or forest where iron is found.
 
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Azazoth!

L1: Registered
Feb 6, 2010
33
14
Feedback from gameday:

The biggest problem with this map is that it is way, way too big. (One of the other players suggested a factor of two, which seems about right to me.) Scale it down to roughly half its current size, and the map will improve dramatically.

metalwood_3.png

metalwood_5.png

metalwood_7.png

Partially (though not entirely) a factor of the map's size: there were some really, really long sightlines in some areas of the map. This is generally frowned on, as being sniped from thousands of Hammer units away is considered an unpleasant experience.

The signage on the map is reversed from TF2's usual convention: your red signs point towards the blue base, and not vice versa. Once I realized what was going on, I didn't have too much trouble, but it was confusing the heck out of most of the players. You should probably swap that.

metalwood_1.png

metalwood_4.png

Your Novint props don't have their textures packratted, so they show up like this in-game. There are tutorials on packratting properly in the tutorials forum.

Miscellaneous:

metalwood_2.png

This sign is really dark, for some reason. The corresponding red sign doesn't have this problem.

metalwood_6.png

metalwood_10.png

These lights lit the surrounding area, but not themselves. Very odd.

metalwood_8.png

metalwood_9.png

There were a pair of lights in the floor of each spawn. The general consensus was that this was odd, as lights are generally placed on the ceiling, and not the floor. Maybe change that.



Anyway, downscale the map, fix a few other problems (swap the signage!), maybe add a little more cover, and I think you could have the seed of a very respectable map. Keep it up!
 

honorum646

L6: Sharp Member
Oct 9, 2009
335
67
Yeah the factor of two was me.

As said above, you literally could take all the outer areas and scale 50%.


Also, there wasn't just a problem with the direction of the arrows, but there also is no other gameplay signs, which would definetly help with the flow.
 

sniprpenguin

L6: Sharp Member
Mar 14, 2008
266
258
ctf_metalwood_a3b is go!

Editting first post to reflect this.
 

sniprpenguin

L6: Sharp Member
Mar 14, 2008
266
258
a4 is now released!

Editing first post to reflect this.

Screenies to come, but only if necessary.
 
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sniprpenguin

L6: Sharp Member
Mar 14, 2008
266
258
New version is up of A5, along with screenshots. Not a whole lot changed between versions, but due to the upcoming deadline for the contest, the next version will be b1, barring any major changes to the layout. Will be putting up for Gameday testing.
 

sniprpenguin

L6: Sharp Member
Mar 14, 2008
266
258
B1 is out.

Official Changelog:

-Heavy decoration
-Added platforms to allow easier access to far roof-tops
-Changed health & ammo around
-Added "walkways" accessible from upper entrance in each base. Blu has a set of pipes, Red has a wooden support beam.
-Added the train bridge
-Lit up more areas
-Started added env_sprites to lights
 

sniprpenguin

L6: Sharp Member
Mar 14, 2008
266
258
Belated gameday bump.

Would be nice to hear feedback since most of the conversation in-game was about what map to play next...
 

lucky

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
May 25, 2009
583
145
Okay so.. teams were slightly imbalanced and lead to spawncamping but regardless, I will try and give my opinion on how it plays out normally! All theoretical of course :p
But hey you need feedback.

There are two main routes effectively, and they allow complete bypassing of the other team if they both choose to take the 'left' route say. 2 major routes is not something I like, as there doesn't feel to be enough focus. I would Now I don't know if anybody will agree with me on this, but it felt like it has a bit of excess room on the sides. The houses for instance, maybe keep the roofs accessible sure, but I really don't think you need to be able to go inside them.

After looking at the layout of your map.. I don't really know if this is the best way (since it's a bit of an unnatural flow tbh to get to the other base) but I think it keeps the action more focused. I have just come up with my suggestions of how _I_ think it would be better. Keep in mind this is the first play I had of the map, so don't take it too much to heart as you will no doubt know better how well your map works!

So here we go: I crossed out the part I don't think is needed, the roofs are fine by me but I don't think the innards are needed.
http://img638.imageshack.us/i/ctfmetalwoodb10000.jpg/

Here is the overhead. I tried to outline boundaries and walls with red to show what I would do. I included the balcony part that soldiers and demos can jump up to, but I would completely scrap the route below. The new room is pretty simple - has the route from outside to it alongside one straight to intel, and the exit to intel is a bit narrow (to try and balance out the safety of bypassing spawn). Also not pictured there, I thought it would be good to have stairs going up from this place to the soldier/demo balcony.
http://img641.imageshack.us/i/ctfmetalwoodb10001.jpg/

I was considering making the spawn extend to here instead (rather than the other spawn exit on the left) - but I don't know how well that would work.
http://img682.imageshack.us/i/ctfmetalwoodb10002.jpg/

Trying to show how I would add the room
http://img63.imageshack.us/i/ctfmetalwoodb10003.jpg/

and where the exit for that room would be. I know the red has a double doors there, but you can get smaller doors .. pretty sure you can anyway.
http://img709.imageshack.us/i/ctfmetalwoodb10004.jpg/

Me scribbling out the part I don't think needed!
http://img80.imageshack.us/i/ctfmetalwoodb10005.jpg

Okay one thing I forgot in the overhead image, maybe make a route to get there so it's not so overpowered for soldiers and demos, but the defence needs some hold on the place to get there.
http://img88.imageshack.us/i/ctfmetalwoodb10006.jpg/




so YEAH. I don't know how much you are prepared to change your map, let alone listen to my ideas - but this is how I feel.
 

sniprpenguin

L6: Sharp Member
Mar 14, 2008
266
258
Just gonna write down my thoughts on each point so I can help myself organize:

There are two main routes effectively, and they allow complete bypassing of the other team if they both choose to take the 'left' route say. 2 major routes is not something I like, as there doesn't feel to be enough focus. I would Now I don't know if anybody will agree with me on this, but it felt like it has a bit of excess room on the sides. The houses for instance, maybe keep the roofs accessible sure, but I really don't think you need to be able to go inside them.

So here we go: I crossed out the part I don't think is needed, the roofs are fine by me but I don't think the innards are needed.
http://img638.imageshack.us/i/ctfmetalwoodb10000.jpg/

The innards were going to be a bitch to detail, and were rarely used except by roaming stragglers. Getting rid of the insides might not be a bad idea.

Here is the overhead. I tried to outline boundaries and walls with red to show what I would do. I included the balcony part that soldiers and demos can jump up to, but I would completely scrap the route below. The new room is pretty simple - has the route from outside to it alongside one straight to intel, and the exit to intel is a bit narrow (to try and balance out the safety of bypassing spawn). Also not pictured there, I thought it would be good to have stairs going up from this place to the soldier/demo balcony.
http://img641.imageshack.us/i/ctfmetalwoodb10001.jpg/

...

Trying to show how I would add the room
http://img63.imageshack.us/i/ctfmetalwoodb10003.jpg/

...

and where the exit for that room would be. I know the red has a double doors there, but you can get smaller doors .. pretty sure you can anyway.
http://img709.imageshack.us/i/ctfmetalwoodb10004.jpg/

...

Okay one thing I forgot in the overhead image, maybe make a route to get there so it's not so overpowered for soldiers and demos, but the defence needs some hold on the place to get there.
http://img88.imageshack.us/i/ctfmetalwoodb10006.jpg/

A nice idea, actually, though I was also think of a spawn exit leading up to the balcony on the far side as a means to prevent spawn-camping like we had earlier today. Both of these could work.

Me scribbling out the part I don't think needed!
http://img80.imageshack.us/i/ctfmetalwoodb10005.jpg

404 Not found.

so YEAH. I don't know how much you are prepared to change your map, let alone listen to my ideas - but this is how I feel.

It's been heavily changed in each version. In fact, my original sketches look nothing like this. Changing geometry doesn't scare me- optimisation does.