Idle map restriction

Should idle maps be banned from tf2maps.net?


  • Total voters
    81

Minilandstan

L1: Registered
Dec 5, 2009
26
10
I believe that people won't stop making idle maps until they no longer need it.
For example, if cars were deleted from the face of the earth, you would try to re-build it in your own image. The same goes for idle maps.
Until VALVe implants a system like only getting hats on VALVe approved maps or servers, we will have idle maps everywhere.

Just live with it. It keeps the people who think their awsome because they idle away.
Its more fun when you EARN a hat instead of getting it for a bad reason.
 

Shmitz

Old Hat
aa
Nov 12, 2007
1,128
746
Its more fun when you EARN a hat instead of getting it for a bad reason.

Except you do nothing to earn hats. It's a dice roll, nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't matter what you're doing when you get a hat; whatever it was had nothing to do with your chance of getting it, therefore it is fallacious to say that hat was "earned".
 

Dox

L8: Fancy Shmancy Member
Oct 26, 2007
588
62
Might discourage people if it was called 'the idle maps trash pile' or some such similar. Just a thought.

Calling it that is beyond arrogant. People want to make an orange or idle map, instead of discouraging them, encourage them to do it WELL. The reason people say Idle maps are crap is because no one ever takes the time to make one well, and the people a mapper would usually turn to for advice on the subject just flames them.

People want to make an orange map? Well, orange just means two textures, maybe make suggestions about their brushwork, or displacements, are the cap/spawn times right for a map of that size?

People want to make an Idle map? Well, Idle just means no victory conditions. You can still give them advice on texturing, brushwork, optimization, spawn locations/ not having them camped.

there are so many things new mappers could learn from their "easy" first project.
In the end, If a bad map is put out there and they asked for advice and none was given because people think its easier to just say "idle sux, lol!" rather than give the advice they could provide, I dont just blame the mapper, I blame the community.


Note : Ive never idled, nor do I intend to
 

grazr

Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle
aa
Mar 4, 2008
5,441
3,814
I think it's more the purpose of the map, Dox.

Idle maps arn't intended to be played, they are intended to provide an environment that allows players to join a server to collect weapon drops without damaging their player stats. Providing anything more makes it "not" an idle map but something else.

When people do "play" an idle map it's essentially a death match (because of the no-victory conditions aspect you already mentioned). So we wonder why people don't just make it a DM gimmick or box map instead.

People make idle maps because it's simple, but most importantly of all quick to finish. Secondly, not all, but most of these people want immediate recognition for their "work". They want to be praised for their efforts as they've seen idle maps spread like the bubonic plague and want their slice of the "market". The "quickness" in finishing such a project is attractive to a prospective author. Understandably we all want to see the wonderful end result of our map asap, but none of the active members here have resorted to producing otherwise intentially broken maps in an effort to do that. Though we may fall victim too impatience on some of our releases.

Orange maps are not that much different. The very implication of an orange map is one that consists of a meat grind that never truely ends. They attempt scenario's otherwise outside of the engines capacity to perform well/properly and outside of TF2's intended gameplay mechanics. Which results in class imbalances, impossible maps and horrible optimisation (despite the basic-ness of the designs). So it's not hard to see why people generally assume these people have no idea what they are doing and need to read a couple design articles (which would have been the first step if they intended to take a mapping project seriously, and would have resulted in not producing an orange/idle map).

If someone posts an orange map and asks for feedback it's only logical then that that feedback consists of telling the author to make it more aesthetically pleasing and balanced (as you say). But with each piece of "valuble" feedback we inevitably take the author more and more away from it being an orange map. Advising a modification of the layout to compliment TF2's gameplay mechanics usually results in the author ignoring you and accusing you of not understanding the concept of the map; which is supposed to be a "different experience" to what is currently available. They want non-standard TF2 gameplay (gameplay that's actually available in other games) in TF2, and we're not supposed to laugh at that notion when they intend to do it with just the execution of a map layout and expect it to work without flaws; or flaws that can be ironed out with feedback that doesn't require the map to conform to current layout trends. Trends which happen to be dictated by the player class designs and engine limitations.

People generally like orange because of its "no strings attatched" gameplay that doesn't require them to complete objectives to "win" but merely see what kind of KD ratio's they can achieve free of the anxiety they might experience if they might "lose" a game. It's practically a requirement for your layout and respawn times to break your game modes playability. When you enter an orange map you're not expected to win or lose, just frag.

If someone wanted valuble feedback on their orange map the first valuble piece of advice i would give would be not to make an orange map. That isn't me, as a serious level designer, trolling their efforts. It's the way the cookie crumbles. Is all they want to know is that it's "fun" to play, and the only mistake they can really make without having compile errors or setting up the gamemode wrong, is whether they made the map too small.

This isn't intended as a rant, although it might look like it because of its length. But what you are asking of people is unrealistic. The moment you start actually providing feedback to an orange or idle map you effectively troll it with expectations.

edit: made post smaller. >.>
 
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Dox

L8: Fancy Shmancy Member
Oct 26, 2007
588
62
I can see where you are coming from Grazr, but for everyone 20 of these guys who is too lazy to change, 1 might actually listen, and after putting in the effort to make his map better might throw in some textures..... and next, there might be dancing.
 

grazr

Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle
aa
Mar 4, 2008
5,441
3,814
Of course, Dox, and that brings me back to the post i made earlier in this thread.

Let these guys know the status quo of TF2 mapping and the rest is up to them.

If we ban idle maps we just (inadvertantly) shoo potential creativeness away to another place, which goes against the moral's of TF2maps. Or atleast what i have percieved as one of its moral codes. We help people, we don't ignore nor dismiss them.
 
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Crash

func_nerd
aa
Mar 1, 2010
3,312
5,498
I think they should be allowed, as it is a good starting place for mappers. Will it be used? Most likely not, but how many of anyone else's first maps are played?

Banning them is simply stifling budding creativity. It sounds like you guys are disagreeing with the idea of idling more than the idea of making a map for it. Don't let your own thoughts on idling hurt new mappers.

Everyone starts somewhere, and a easy place to start is with an idle map. If you don't think they are going to learn from it and end up making a better map in the future, your crazy.

Just be polite, give them advice on how to make it a better map. Details, lighting, clipping, etc. All of these things can be in an idle map. Sure game play isn't an issue, but it sure helps to learn the basics of hammer with a small map like that before delving into something a bit more serious.

Everyone seems to be forgetting that this place is here to help new mappers and get new maps out there. So how is idle maps hurting either?