Dear mapmakers: stop making kill pits

Cerious

L420: High Member
Aug 10, 2008
455
133
They're not clever, never will be clever, and unless you implement it right like in Lumberyard where there is a benefit involved with the risk of traveling by the pit, they simply are dumb and a waste of resources.

Thanks.
 

KaiserFate

L69: Deviant Member
Dec 9, 2009
69
12
Death pits work in a game like Unreal Tournament on an absolutely tiny deathmatch map. I don't think they really belong in Team Fortress 2.
 

Sel

Banned
Feb 18, 2009
1,239
2,570
Yeah you're completely right, forcing players to actually watch their footing is a fucking stupid idea, also FAN, and airblast shouldn't be incapable of killing things too!
 
Last edited:

Icarus

aa
Sep 10, 2008
2,245
1,210
I think the point is that you have to implement these intelligently. Placing them haphazardly without reason could be detrimental
 

SiniStarR

L8: Fancy Shmancy Member
Mar 31, 2009
585
116
my bridge map used such "pits" but it didn't really mess up the flow. Considering they were on either side of the bridge. I agree with Icarus you have to take great care when using them.
 

Ida

deer
aa
Jan 6, 2008
2,289
1,372
I absolutely, completely disagree. I don't think you should put them in your map just because you want to, but if your setting includes a big drop, leave it open. It's better than closing it off in most cases. Imagine if arena_offblast had fences all around? It's a great map that would become terribly boring.

In my map, koth_shell, a rocket is sticking out of an open silo. If the silo is open, you can obviously fall in and die. If it's closed, there's no rocket and the main idea of the map is lost.

Flat maps are boring, and so are you if you think that's the only way to make maps.
 

XFunc_CaRteR

L5: Dapper Member
May 14, 2009
248
17
I absolutely, completely disagree. I don't think you should put them in your map just because you want to, but if your setting includes a big drop, leave it open. It's better than closing it off in most cases. Imagine if arena_offblast had fences all around? It's a great map that would become terribly boring.

In my map, koth_shell, a rocket is sticking out of an open silo. If the silo is open, you can obviously fall in and die. If it's closed, there's no rocket and the main idea of the map is lost.

Flat maps are boring, and so are you if you think that's the only way to make maps.

What he said!
 

Dr. ROCKZO

L8: Fancy Shmancy Member
Jul 25, 2009
580
159
Placement is key. Sure, don't put them all around the track. But in an area that isn't too combat heavy but may get the occasional battle in, put something dangerous in there to keep the players on their toes.
 

Freyja

aa
Jul 31, 2009
2,994
5,813
I took the death pit out of my map.

People complained about it not being there.

I put it back in. They were happy.
 

zpqrei

Theme Changer Extraordinaire
aa
Oct 19, 2008
1,067
1,150
i absolutely, completely disagree. I don't think you should put them in your map just because you want to, but if your setting includes a big drop, leave it open. It's better than closing it off in most cases. Imagine if arena_offblast had fences all around? It's a great map that would become terribly boring.

In my map, koth_shell, a rocket is sticking out of an open silo. If the silo is open, you can obviously fall in and die. If it's closed, there's no rocket and the main idea of the map is lost.

Flat maps are boring, and so are you if you think that's the only way to make maps.

qft
 

grazr

Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle
aa
Mar 4, 2008
5,441
3,814
The thing is most people arn't intelligent enough to implement them correctly and they do ruin their map and the players experience as a result.

It was one of the reasons i marked premuda low on flow/balance. Because a single pyro can, and has pushed a considerable assault force, including ubers, into death pits, whilst assaulting an initial CP.

Atleast in Steel it's the final CP, and it does have railings on half of it.

This is one of my greatest pet peeves for the ammatuer mapper. Death pits are not clever, and just because they can seem "interesting" gameplay wise, this is not a legitemate reason for including of one in your map.
 

Micnax

Back from the dead (again)
aa
Apr 25, 2009
2,109
1,585
Putting them in random places, such as small choke areas and such wouldn't be appropriate, but places like big open areas near final objectives make sense, so it makes it just that bit harder to attack, then you have the choice to stay back away from danger or risk it and complete the objective.
 
Feb 14, 2008
1,051
931
A lot of people put in deathpits on one flank of their map because they can't be asked to build something there. I mean, A LOT of maps have a deathpit on the side nowadays. In maps like HAARP, it's pretty cool, because it's there for a reason and is used intelligently, but in other maps it just gets annoying.
 

littleedge

L1111: Clipping Guru
aa
Mar 2, 2009
986
605
Haarp uses deathpits properly. They are on one side of the map on the first point of a round. Like on stage 1, it's right out of spawn, but only an idiot or an Airblast could really knock you off. When there is little room to walk around, there is a railing. When you're at the helipad, you've got plenty of space and if you fall, it's your fault. On stage 2, it's a deathpit along a flanking route. That route to the point is very useful, and you don't encounter danger often, and when you do, you've got a sightline that can protect you from falling.

So yeah. Deathpits are awesome, if done correctly.
 

TheDarkerSideofYourShadow

L10: Glamorous Member
Apr 12, 2008
792
286
My map has 5 pits. Four of those are along boundaries to the map. The fifth is at a point such that it prevents someone from standing under the cart and stopping it from advancing. I've never had any complaints about the location of the pits, nor their purpose in being there. Maybe that just an example of doing things in a much more proper fashion than some other maps.
 

MangyCarface

Mapper
aa
Feb 26, 2008
1,626
1,325
Death pits can add an interesting dynamic to many areas and simply writing them off due to what has to be personal frustration is silly. Frontier's final point wouldn't play the same without the known hazard behind the defenders. As long as death pits are easily noted, they can influence players in a way that can be defined and utilized to create a specific gameplay situation.