Faultline

You can't make it so people can "avoid" the quake. That just adds more random chaos since maybe theres a 1v1 scout fight going on as the quake starts and all of a sudden one of the scout starts going at heavy speed while the other is still running full..

IMO ditch the "ingame earthquake" idea and put a giant crack down the middle of the middle CP instead of a tiny hole, and maybe put some water around the end points

I know one thing you can do is just make the third stage longer or just mess around with it

The reason the first round is so long and/or results in a stalemate is because of where the point is when compared to where the enemies come into the zone. One of the entrances is right by the point, another is below the point, the other far away and out of immediate line of sight. It is also easier to defend this point because of where barriers (props or displacement pile things) are.

The reason the second round is so quick (that is, the team that has advanced gets their point capped fast) is also because of where the point is when compared to where the enemies come into the zone. Two exits have the point right in clear view - the 'empty' side of the point. One exit is beneath the point, the other is far away. The former and latter makes it simple to take out sentries and people from range. Sentries already have a tough time. It's as if you built the middle points for only that middle, first round - all natural defenses are on that side of the point. [I cannot give help on the team that has been pushed back, and on their point. I have not lost enough and played defending on that point to give good criticism.]

The last point is half-good. The defending team's side is great. Point's on a hill, being overlooked by a tower, it's all good. But attacking team's entrance isn't. I said it in the chat when you weren't there/paying attention: "Last round is okay if you take out the door game part (where the host tells you there is a prize behind one of the three doors, and no matter which door you choose, you die)." Essentially, the attacking team leaves spawn, walks to the building, chooses a door, goes through it, and dies.


So essentially, the second round needs work, and the middle points need some natural defenses on both sides. The third round is alright, but too defender-friendly. And may I suggest thinking about reducing sentry count on round 1?


Here are some screenies of things I've noticed. Most are actually from a2, but I've still noticed a couple in a5, but I apologize if you fixed it already.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1490725/tc_faultline_a20000.jpg
Fence is off the ground.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1490725/tc_faultline_a20001.jpg
Unsewn/Faulty Displacement
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1490725/tc_faultline_a20003.jpg
I'm weird and use the windows above as a sentry spot (it covers the point, but soldiers/snipers from across the point can take it out easily) and snipers should use this, but c'mon - I rarely see anyone in there. Give us a reason to want to use that place for defense - maybe a small health kit/ammo pak, or just some form of usefulness.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1490725/tc_faultline_a20004.jpg
In that same place before the ramp to the windows.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1490725/tc_faultline_a20005.jpg
I think you fixed that, but not 100% sure. Shiny Truck!
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1490725/tc_faultline_a30000.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1490725/tc_faultline_a30001.jpg
View distances, or something
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1490725/tc_faultline_a50000.jpg
Unsewn/Faulty Displacement

Icarus said:

5 alphas, and no progress.

TC seems like it will forever remain a scoutrush-or-stalemate mode

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*sigh*... sad but... true... :crying:

Icarus said:

5 alphas, and no progress.

TC seems like it will forever remain a scoutrush-or-stalemate mode

Click to expand...

Hey man, don't give up. Sure it can be difficult, but not impossible.

I played for a little on this map today, I know most people are not the biggest fan of TC,but theres not much out there. I liked it, the tremor or earthquake was simply unique. hopefully this map will improve.

what i missed was the feel of advancing in each stage itself
most noticable in the starting stage. you know when in hydro one team is a bit stronger and advances a bit forward to secure the next mini-chokepoint, that is what i´m missing in faultline. the defense always stays on point.
even if it was moved up, there is just no way to secure the middle-section with one decent sentry, because it´s too wide to cover, battles seemed so stretched.
when i saw some folks fighting at the other end, i didn´t even bother getting involved. i´d say part of this is the spawn-placement, simply turning left is the fastest way to go, so both parties miss each other in the middle.
the same problem is with the other parts too, there are just 2 fighting ends, no battle in-between, narrow it down and force people to fight

If you've got push gameplay involved, then make it so; involve 3 points per round instead of only 2 and have the middle point grant spawn advantage or w/e.

Looks like fun to me, haven't played it though.
Where can i play this map ??? Can someone tell me this ???
Otherwise, nice work as always

MangyCarface said:

If you've got push gameplay involved, then make it so; involve 3 points per round instead of only 2 and have the middle point grant spawn advantage or w/e.

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this, the average player needs a kick in the ass to defend or attack when either are appropriate, the mid point does that.
If your team has the middle, well, you won't lose instantly so go attack, if the other team has mid, then put some effort into defending or you lose.

Though you start to drift away from tc at this point <_<

MrAlBobo said:

Though you start to drift away from tc at this point <_<

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as long as you keep the various stages asymmetrical, hopefully it won't I've always thought adding a middle cp to hydro would've been great as well, seeing as the map has fantastically designed CAPTURE POINTS - but all combat is located in the terrible, terrible chokes in between.

The problem with taking it in the 3 CP direction is you start to realize that 5 CPs work even better for push gameplay.

So, TC has to make the best of the things that actually make it different: assymetrical stages and a base A/D at the end.

Tinker said:

So, TC has to make the best of the things that actually make it different: assymetrical stages and a base A/D at the end.

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Well, kind of... I was getting at more the 2 CP design in each stage. I don't think asymmetry would make it better.

That reminds me though, I was going to bring this up before, but this gamemode really isn't TC. I was calling vineyard TC a while ago, and I thought it was OK because it's 2 CP rounds and I wanted to use the overview map. But it misses what really makes a gamemode territorial control. In most games (including tf2 with tc_hydro), TC implies that there is non-linear capturing of territory, and a struggle to hold that territory from the other team. Hydro is just like that, only it guides the teams around in different rounds to funnel the battle.

You can argue that oh, you're still controlling territory in this multistage CP map. You'd be right, but you also control territory in dustbowl, granary, well, badlands, etc. Imagine if dustbowl was called tc_dustbowl... ew. That's sort of the way I feel about vineyard's old title and faultline's current title.

no, no no... 3 points does /not/ affect the nature of TC play; the key feature here is reusing points in more than one round; ideally you'd do it like so:

1-2-3-4-5-6-7

3-4-5 played at first; depending on the winner, shifts to 2-3-4 or 4-5-6 and then onto 1-2-3 and 5-6-7 respectively. A point that was played as a last point, when then played as a middle point could be entirely different in terms of gameplay while saving on overall work. Likewise the dynamic of the offense defending the defense's first point (where blu owned 5 at the beginning, now RED has blu pushed back so that RED owns 5) is really quite different.

Go for it Icarus, add the extra points

It could work if 3, 4, 5 were the first, and then it would go straight to 1, 2, 3 or 5, 6, 7.

Icarus said:

But I don't like how you have to capture a territory, only to have it start as the neutral point after.

If possible, I want to find a way to add intermediate points in the 3 central stages. It's simpler, and still accomplishes the same goal.

The only downside is, I'm going to be one over the index limit.

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I think the two middle points are fine as is, and adding central points into the second stages would work.