Engy upgrade (thoughts)?

TheDarkerSideofYourShadow

L10: Glamorous Member
Apr 12, 2008
792
286
So, I through this idea out to my regular server yesterday, after wrenching to death 5 or so spies.

If you kill a spy who had sapped your SG, your SG crits for the next five seconds (after becoming unsapped). Requires more metal to build/upgrade.

Or, another spy related idea is:

Wrench upgrade. If you kill someone with the wrench, your next building builds faster/for less metal (not sure which it should be). However, you repair your structures for less damage with each hit (ie, swing slower).
 

Hawk

L7: Fancy Member
Dec 3, 2007
419
213
I've always liked the idea of the Engineer being able to build two level one sentries. They would never be able to go to level 2 (or maybe one could) but you could set them up in different places.
 

Arhurt

L6: Sharp Member
May 7, 2008
315
140
I'd like to see:

Belt dispenser: You build a dispenser that you carry around in your belt, so you become a mobile dispenser and have unlimited metal/ammo, but from then on you move like a Heavy (slow)

Armored mannable sentry: A sentry immune to sapping and already lvl 3, with thick armor from the front. It must be manned, as in someone must stand behind it and aim with it (also very likely to be backstabbed).

Two-way teleporter: A teleporter that works both ways, the trick is that your enemy can use it as well.

But then, these are updates on the engies buildables, and so far Valve has onlu upgraded the character's weapons, so that would mean a new wrench/shotty and pistol.

In this manner, I think the engy could get the old EMP pistol that kills equipment really fast, a shotty that does critical damage to cloacked spies and a wrench that builds/repairs faster but deals no damage.
 

grazr

Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle
aa
Mar 4, 2008
5,441
3,814
Arhurt said:
Armored mannable sentry: A sentry immune to sapping and already lvl 3, with thick armor from the front. It must be manned, as in someone must stand behind it and aim with it (also very likely to be backstabbed).

I've always thought about this, though you would still need to upgrade it in my idea, it would be susceptable to attack whilst you upgrade it as it is unable to defend itself. The only draw back would be that how would the engineer heal the sg whilst under attack? Would the dispenser heal it if near by? A gradual hp regeneration seemed logical but then it wouldn't be strong enough to withstand an assualt on it.

I've liked this idea because then the sg has the ability (due to the player manning the turret) to anticipate and counter assaults on it from corners etc.

I suppose one way to resolve this would be be for it to take significantly less damage from the front, say 50% less. A player is susceptable to backstabbing whilst mounted and the sg has extremely limited turning speed. Enough to keep up with players attempting to flank it after a frontal assault, but not enough that he can wip it around and defend his backside from a deliberate flanking manouver.

Zappers disable it but also deal damage 50% less. To allow neighbouring engineers time to help bring the sg back. Whilst this sounds overpowered the gun is technically out of action untill its owner returns, making it incredibly vulnerable to assault.

The armour might also only be activated whilst manned, so it is easy to take out whilst being built or user out of action.

Pro's: Anticipation of enemy anti sg tactics, choice of multiple targets by user, strong frontal defences.

Con's: More susceptable to attack whilst unmanned, more susceptable to flanking manouvers due to slow turn speed.

The player weighs up it's weakness whilst being built, as well as attacks from behind and inability for sg to defend itself. With human intelligence applied to the moment. The gun is quite a strong static defence when it gets to it's final state, but is just as easy to take out if the enemy team plays their cards right.

Only engineers should be able to man these. (don't want to have other players neglecting their roles) they would sit in it like an anti air emplacement.

Theoretically there is no maximum range as the player has natural site.

Secondly. I want the engineers railgun back. It was great for bouncing around snipers with it's pin point accuracy. Alternatively, the pistol could send out a shock round with a small area of effect around the shot that detonates projectiles in mid flight, effectively negating rockets and grenades. I'm not sure whether it is worth doing return damage like the pyro's airblast as this may overpower the engineer.
 
Last edited:

MrAlBobo

L13: Stunning Member
Feb 20, 2008
1,059
219
as awesome as it would be to see buildable upgrades...arhurt is probably right valve just upgrading the weapons...

oh and grazr...you quoted arhurt and referenced TheDarkerSideofYourShadow...just pointing it out...
 

grazr

Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle
aa
Mar 4, 2008
5,441
3,814
woops.. ^^

edit: Perhaps an emp device with an area of effect. Replacing the pistol the engineer can place a circular "pad" (like the original emp grenade in appearence) onto a surface (wall, floor, ceiling). The engineer has a single emp device that can be retrieved after placement (right click) or from a locker if it is destroyed. After being placed the engineer brings up a remote with a single button on it (rather than the emp device itself). He can activate it an infinite amount of times, when activated, it "deletes" stuck sticky bombs in a defined radius (say 5 metres). The pad has to be placed at point blank range, it cannot be thrown.

This can be used to cunningly faulter defended positions, protect an sg or spam hot spot.
 
Last edited:

l3eeron

L8: Fancy Shmancy Member
Jan 4, 2008
593
88
rail gun and upgradeable TPs
 

Hawk

L7: Fancy Member
Dec 3, 2007
419
213
How about a pistol replacement that deactivates sticky bombs? I'd personally consider it overpowered, but considering how much people cry about demomen, it might be something to think about.

Wow, I didn't think about that. Sticky bombs are the Engineer's other weakness, and it would be nice to see that addressed. and I dont' see it as being unbalanced, really. You have VERY little time to shoot away sticky bombs before they detonate.

MrAlBobo said:
as awesome as it would be to see buildable upgrades...arhurt is probably right valve just upgrading the weapons...

I would have thought that too, except I remember hearing somewhere (in an interview after the Pyro update, I believe) that they have actually already played around with a different kind of teleporter.

I hope they upgrade at least one of the Engineer's buildings. I'd prefer that it wasn't the teleporters, though. I don't feel like they need to be messed with.
 

Shmitz

Old Hat
aa
Nov 12, 2007
1,128
746
Wow, I didn't think about that. Sticky bombs are the Engineer's other weakness, and it would be nice to see that addressed. and I dont' see it as being unbalanced, really. You have VERY little time to shoot away sticky bombs before they detonate.

It could also make engineers marginally more useful in arena, where they are pretty weak compared to other gametypes.
 

A Boojum Snark

Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado
aa
Nov 2, 2007
4,775
7,669
Since this topic was brought up, I'll tell paste over the idea I had which I emailed to Robin a couple weeks ago.
me! said:
My idea is to give the engineer an oil can, replacing the pistol, with which he can trade off a personal damage ability for augmenting those of his sentry gun and teammates. It is not a necessity to use, but if used right it is a powerful option to consider when setting up a defensive emplacement. If all the following ideas were implemented, it could even be a viable replacement for the shotgun.

The primary purpose would be an oil slick on the floor, creating a low-friction zone reducing the enemy's ability to maneuver. He could place a slick strategically around a corner, in such a spot so that opponents would "slide" into sight of his sentry gun, both taking them by surprise and hindering any retreat. Indirect uses could include making a strategic corner harder to round, control points or payloads trickier to stay near, and bridges or elevated locations more hazardous to traverse. Visually, the rich black crude oil could have a team colored shimmer to indicate if it's safe to approach or if one should consider another route.

A possible addition to the oil slick would be to give it an alternate fire function that spreads a non-slippery but flammable oil. This would be ignitable by only the flare gun, and would burn off quickly. The result would be a synergy between the engineer and the pyro, as well as giving more use to the underused flare gun. Flammable oil would be near-clear to all but the pyro, who would see an orange shimmer upon it, "Pyromania-vision", to indicate he can have some extra fun with fire.

Secondarily, the oil can could be used to lubricate the sentry gun, providing it with a partially increased rate of fire. While the sentry is not firing the lubrication would last a fair time, perhaps a minute, before draining off. When firing, it would get used up extremely fast, little more than a second. Since the engineer clearly can not have both a wrench and an oil can out at the same time, he would have to decide between maintaining lubrication for increased speed, or repairing to keep the gun alive.

Last, but certainly not least, giving him oil fits his theme of being a former roughneck, and sliding around on a slick meshes with the "cartoony" feel of TF2.
As you can see, I thought this out quite a bit :p
 

Snipergen

L13: Stunning Member
Nov 16, 2007
1,051
150
Mortar gun + lazer on your pistol that shows mortar where to fire (right click with pistol)
Only works when mortar is build outside in a reasonable distance that it can fire (building at spawn won't cover the entire map)
Timing between shots and impact needs balancing.
 

joshman

L5: Dapper Member
May 7, 2008
204
14
take a look at the loadout

All he's gonna get is a new wrench a new pistol and a new shotgun.

Nothing New, Sentry Wise!
 

Dox

L8: Fancy Shmancy Member
Oct 26, 2007
588
62
You cant be sure of that. I strongly doubt valve would pass over the buildables.
 

Ida

deer
aa
Jan 6, 2008
2,289
1,372
Since this topic was brought up, I'll tell paste over the idea I had which I emailed to Robin a couple weeks ago.

As you can see, I thought this out quite a bit :p

I love that idea! I'm already getting a bit excited, hoping that they'll include it. :p

Snipergen: I'm not sure if a mortar gun would be physically possible. It would have to fire through all kinds of weird map component stuff up there in the sky, probably even going out of bounds, in order to get to a location, at least if it were to fire reasonably far.
 

Dan2025

L2: Junior Member
Aug 29, 2008
67
4
Actually, couldn't Valve technically upgrade the tool which the engineer uses to build his buildings? You know, that little palm-pilot thingy? The result would be new buildings available for the engineer to build, while what was technically upgraded was the device he uses to build them.

Wouldn't that work?
 

Ida

deer
aa
Jan 6, 2008
2,289
1,372
Yeah, I'm sure they could. It's their game, there should be no problem editing the loadout menu slightly to make space for building upgrades. After all, what they have now is just placeholder.
 

grazr

Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle
aa
Mar 4, 2008
5,441
3,814
I love that idea! I'm already getting a bit excited, hoping that they'll include it. :p

Snipergen: I'm not sure if a mortar gun would be physically possible. It would have to fire through all kinds of weird map component stuff up there in the sky, probably even going out of bounds, in order to get to a location, at least if it were to fire reasonably far.

Unless it didn't arc. Say for instance that a round goes up into the sky from the mortar (end) then a round falls from the sky on the location targeted. The round wouldn't technically pass through any geometry but fire up into air, then the round would "appear" above the target and fall from the skybox.
 

Ida

deer
aa
Jan 6, 2008
2,289
1,372
Unless it didn't arc. Say for instance that a round goes up into the sky from the mortar (end) then a round falls from the sky on the location targeted. The round wouldn't technically pass through any geometry but fire up into air, then the round would "appear" above the target and fall from the skybox.

Ahh, well, that's possible I guess. :D