[WIP] pl_SubStation

[Snipergen]

I played this during gameday (against my principles:nobright) but I played it. And I had fun. It's a new idea to push the train and I don't see much wrong with it except.... this is how the perfect sniper map looks like in my dream, such a distance, nobody could hit me, but I COULD HIT THEM >

Now this is not a good thing ofcourse. How could you make the map more awesome? In my eyes, cut 2/3 of the subway and let the train go out a tunnel, take it some corners, train goes trough some shacks in the woodland where they get ambushed etc.... lots of possibilitys. But no turns/corners = no cover = fail map, sorry!

 

[VelvetFistIronGlove]

I'm not sure I completely agree. There was lots of cover on the train, so you could ride on it and be covered from snipers. The tracks would be fine continuing straight, as long as the other half of the tracks had lots of cover along it, so you could go from bit to bit without being sniped.

The other thing this map absolutely needs is some side passages for blu to go through, to run ahead and clear out enemies and sentries from in front of the train. You saw yourself the sentry camping that happened on the gameday.

But that said, having the train turn corners would be heaps better; I think it might be a little tricky to get it to articulate properly, but not impossible. But because it would need separate entities, you would need to see how that would affect people riding on it.

 

[grazr]

The bomb riding on the back of the train like that looks strange. There is a seperate bomb model without the attatched chasis that is used for the track models in your standard payload map.

models/props_trainyard/cart_bomb_separate.mdl

It would be neat to see the flat bed packed with a couple of those, say maybe 5 or 7. You could add barriers to the side of the flatbed using brush work and tie them to func_brush and parent them to the flatbed so that they move with it. That way you could lean them on the barrier to give players a little room on the flatbed to manoeuver/give the imperssion they can be heald on the flatbed with no problem etc etc.

Just a suggestion.

edit: sorta something like this;

 

[Uriak]

Nice suggestion. I'm rather curious about this map. Last "push the train" map we played was a disaster, but with proper covers it could be quite enjoyable. Isn't there is big collision/sync issues with such a quantity of moving elements ?

 

[bobby1211]

Snipergen and VelvetFistIronGlove- I knew that snipers would be an issue in this build. I believe I will either have a train on the other track or a derailed car of some sort, that will cut it down quite a bit. I am also researching options on making the track/train curve to break it up. Side passages noted. This is exactly the suggestions I was hoping for. Layout suggestions. Thank you!

grazr - That looks freakin' Awesome. I will definitely ponder the idea of the bomb by itself. Even if I don't use it for the tracktrain, something like that will def end up in the next build. Thank you!

Nice suggestion. I'm rather curious about this map. Last "push the train" map we played was a disaster, but with proper covers it could be quite enjoyable. Isn't there is big collision/sync issues with such a quantity of moving elements ?

Oh boy Uriak, there sure was at first. I believe I have worked out most of the issues but I know there is still small ones. I have watched the demo a couple times and didn't see or hear anyone state they got stuck. Thank you for your comments!!

You guys are all awesome!

-Bobby

 

[MrTwoVideoCards]

The bomb riding on the back of the train like that looks strange. There is a seperate bomb model without the attatched chasis that is used for the track models in your standard payload map.

models/props_trainyard/cart_bomb_separate.mdl

It would be neat to see the flat bed packed with a couple of those, say maybe 5 or 7. You could add barriers to the side of the flatbed using brush work and tie them to func_brush and parent them to the flatbed so that they move with it. That way you could lean them on the barrier to give players a little room on the flatbed to manoeuver/give the imperssion they can be heald on the flatbed with no problem etc etc.

Just a suggestion.

edit: sorta something like this;

That looks pretty sweet, but I think it need to be smaller in a sense, having the cart itself at sch a large scale makes it unbalanced, because of it's sheer zise. THis somewhat reminds me of Bodercross, but alot larger.

 

[FaTony]

This map rox. Mind making it multistage? Track curves?

 

[Uriak]

Oh boy Uriak, there sure was at first. I believe I have worked out most of the issues but I know there is still small ones. I have watched the demo a couple times and didn't see or hear anyone state they got stuck. Thank you for your comments!!

You guys are all awesome!

-Bobby

Thanks. I realize I did'nt get the right idea the first time I read this thread (too fast me ). Now it's clearer

Curves would be an awesome feature, but it would require at least two func_track_train and new tracks (brushwork ?) I'm rather curious to know how you managed to avoid most collisions, since I have the same issue.

@MrTwovideoCards : what exactly is unbalanced with large carts ? If it's about dispenser function, it can be customized in size and position very easily (or even removed!)

 

[grazr]

If my suggestion (or a version there-of) is to be implemented then perhaps the dispenser function should be disabled, as suggested by the others. Of course this may pose problems to soldiers or demo's (or any class really) with limited ammunition. (Unless an engineer is able to build his own on the flatbed).

But perhaps this will encourage people to escort the train rather than riding it. A few scouts may ride the train, and you could leave plenty of ammo packs in the area's off of the train for people to resupply when removing the defences. You're already starting to form some unique gameplay tactics with this idea. Alternatively for each cp/area you may decide to have resupply rooms with lockers, this can keep your team close to the train and remedy ammo issues, but may make the attacking team a little harder and more of a nuisance to kill.

Yes, the flatbed is quite large, but given the gameplay that wants to be implemented by the map author, this is the best suggestion i had. Since he is already trying to implement the large train, this shouldn't be an issue.

The many components of the cart may produce system load issues, but it appears to have already been tried and tested with crates etc. Hopefully it will be fine, but an efficient solution would be to grab the flatbed model and the bombs, and save them as a new single model. The brush work will still have to remain seperate however.

http://www.cometababy.com/tf2/SubStation00104.jpg
Are those gates depicting the end/start of a new round? To use the Well train gates as round gates is a very nice idea. If you're worried about optimisation (as one would be with a long straight map) it may be a sensible precaution to implement an elivator if a turning track is out of the questiom. Much in the same way the bomb is "collected" at the end of the first stage of goldrush. It may not be the most relative thing to reality (I'm not sure of many subways that do this, if any), but for the sakes of gameplay optimisation it may be wise.

 

[Uriak]

A gate + area portal couldn't do it ? (a pitch black tunnel section could do the work too)

 

[grazr]

An areaportal window would still render the otherside if you were close enough. In effect it would section off a map and give it a fade distance much like a model. This would be moderately effective, untill one gets close enough. This doesn't work well with large area's and is best used for windows and doorways with barely destinguishable details on the other side.

The standard areaportal works differently and would not render the other side at all, untill the gates were open. This poses the problem of creating a grey (or what ever defined colour) wall right where the gates are, that suddenly disappears when the gates open. This is quite visually ugly, and these areaportals are best used on opaque doors that opan and close fully, like spawn doors. As you cannot see the otherside of the door, which is why it is sensible to block it's rendition (if that's a real word ).

An area portal window will have it's use to a certain extent, but given the layout of the map it would need a little more than this. Good optimisation comes in the forms of the use of several techniques.

 

[Uriak]

So what I though was of a completely black tunnel section, with the real areaportal in it. Maybe curve (the tunnel) without the train actually taking this curve. People wouldn't be allowed into that tunnel section.
End of the round, the portal opens, the train slowly goes into the darkness (but not the players) Next round, everything is in the new map portion, portail closed, no rendering at all of the other parts of the map

 

[bobby1211]

I have decided to not use curves in the train track as of now. The first and last round will be the bomb cart so there will be curves there no problem. I am still on the fence if I will make round 3 the final round, ending with the entire train shooting into a tunnel and then an explosion, or make a forth round with blue escorting the bomb off of the train to the 'destination' and then explode. The big question:

Is 4 PL Rounds to much?

For the train round(s) it will be a straight track. I tried making a turn and was able to hinge the cars but getting it to move fluid on the curve was going to be a pain. A pain I was willing to take on until all the collision issues. This I do not want to deal with. I have narrowed the track after the first point so the train goes into a tunnel. I was thinking of putting gates at the end of the tunnel that open after capping the first point so that red snipers can not take advantage of this. The distance will be no more then Goldrush first point spawn to the tunnel after the first point.

Other changes have been made based on the great feedback from both this thread and Gameday Demos.

A4 including first 2 rounds coming soon.

-Bobby

 

[Ida]

After three rounds most people may be a bit tired of their offensive/defensive role, and may be a bit disappointed because they don't get to change yet. That said, I think four would actually be a lot of fun, and I can't speak for everyone I guess.

 

[grazr]

It all depends on how you balance the map, if there are 4 rounds, you might want to make it a little easier to attack so the map doesn't out stay it's welcome. And allow people to see all the stages frequently. So it would last about the same as 3 round maps..

That said i get annoyed when my team is so incompetant that they get steam rolled through 2 rounds and it is hard enough to force a stalemate with 20 minutes on the clock a 4th round may be enjoyable.

Of course, this would all need to be tested in game.

 

[Username]

I'd say four rounds would be great, as long as you can keep each stage interesting and unique. Each round should be vastly different.

 

[bobby1211]

Alpha 4 uploaded. First post updated. Still just 2nd round. Screenys to follow this afternoon. Will start working on first round for a5.

-Bobby

 

[bobby1211]

Bump. Images added. Server will be up for the night: 209.221.205.10:27015

-Bobby