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PL moonlit b6

Made by Ezekel

  1. Ezekel

    Ezekel L10: Glamorous Member

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    My dynamic payloady thingy

    not much to say yet, except that it's got some roll zones and an elevator.
    i'm gonna be setting up something else too if i can get it to work. fingers crossed


    - that something else is the underworld. the cart may enter the realm of the damned during a match. so be prepared for much fun and chaos :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2012
  2. Wilson

    aa Wilson Founder of Wankhouse

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  3. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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    Your whole initial BLU spawn exit is horribly cramped and very easily camped. There's little room to move around and RED controls all the high ground, some of it directly outside of 2 different exits.

    Not only should the spawn be pushed back and probably given a higher exit (maybe a route that goes over the track dead ends on the lefthand side, to the house where I left a marker about splash damage), but you need to make the immediate buildings in the area larger on the inside.

    Here is a good example http://i.imgur.com/Ws7TJ.jpg

    You've got a ton of room here to make this not a tiny hallway (which everyone has been complaining about for both revisions now). Please do it. Many places in the map are impossible to navigate without running into some kind of explosive damage or bumping a spy. I don't see any scout players, ever.

    You mentioned you might move BLU's forward spawn up a bit. I highly recommend against this. The problem with RED pushing back to CP3 isn't that the spawn is too far, it's that RED has direct control of the area even after CP3 is capped. It's mostly due to this area: http://i.imgur.com/4PAOR.jpg

    I feel like you actually added more clutter to this, which is the worst thing. You've got a situation where this is the only viable flank to get to the sentry spot across the tracks on the large platform, but at the same time, it's a tiny fucking room where anyone can spam down on you as you run through and dodge tiny boxes. Enemies will shoot at your feet through the partially closed doors and you can't do anything about it. Not only can RED players come from in front of you (through the tiny door, or up the tiny stairs and from the tiny platform) but they can come from behind you, too! Look at this! http://i.imgur.com/deK6n.jpg Even after CP3 is capped, this door is left open for RED to come through directly from spawn. This room is your problem here, not BLU spawn placement. It certainly doesn't help that you've added railings everywhere like this http://i.imgur.com/AFYOG.jpg which just make moving around more annoying. My advice? Take the narrow box room and remove the boxes, RED's flank from spawn (leaving the one from the stairs at the end) and raise the doors all the way. It will take more than that, but it's a start.

    Finally, there's this area http://i.imgur.com/xRjOK.jpg which is confusing to navigate before and after capping. BLU tends to just camp this door http://i.imgur.com/zMmMn.jpg during the cap, too, which isn't much fun for either team. Truthfully I'd remove the entire turn around idea and straighten the track out, although I think finding a solution to this would be more interesting.
     
  4. stevethepocket

    aa stevethepocket I can fix it!

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    FYI, the sign I posted an annotation on... I came in partway through the round and thought the cart started at that one place and looped around, hence the sign pointing the "wrong" way. Turns out the sign really is just pointing the wrong way and should probably be removed.
     
  5. purequaternion

    purequaternion L3: Member

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    This was hilarious last night. The underworld thing was awesome, good job.

    That said, I have a few overall thoughts:

    1. The entire map felt way too monochromatic. I realize it's not anywhere near finished yet, but maybe a little bit more color? Somehow?

    2. A few of the paths felt a little bit too narrow/long. The areas leading up to the final point (before the point) especially. I don't have any concrete suggestions about how to open things up a tad...I'd like to play it a few more times first.

    3. The ammo placement in some areas was an Engineer's wet dream. Others, nightmare. Example: there's a room just behind the fence at A, in which there is a large ammo box. Just a few steps behind it and around a corner, is a medium ammo box. But in other places, like nearer to the final point, I only was finding small ammo boxes.
     
  6. Ezekel

    Ezekel L10: Glamorous Member

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    just an eye candy update:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    i've also been addressing the gameplay issues too. (ammo placement, underworld probability, etc)
    this map's taking more time than i expected it to :-/
     
    MangyCarface thanked this.
  7. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

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    Just wanted to let you know I had our server admin add this to our server so I can bring it up next time we play. It was fun last time I played it during the gametest, so I'll be sure to report back to you on how it goes.
     
    Ezekel thanked this.
  8. marsbar20

    marsbar20 L1: Registered

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    You may want to move the underworld a little lower. while i was testing the map a bunch of spirits (the things in eyeaducts netherworld) came out of the ground.
     
  9. Bereth

    Bereth L3: Member

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    Based on Wilson's ideas I have taken the following screenshots. The first few are from BLU's perspective, the final ones are from RED's.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    RED's perspective:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Epic shot, for posterity's sake.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    You haven't actually explained what the white squares are.
     
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  11. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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    I think he wants detail on them, but I think what this map needs least of all is more stuff cluttering the already tight passageways and arenas.
     
  12. Wilson

    aa Wilson Founder of Wankhouse

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    While Bereth images are pointing at almost every blank wall, yes, that is what the white squares mean.

    We discussed yesterday on server how a lot of the details are high up on the roofs instead where players are usually looking, so it feels like map just had texture pass instead full artpass even tough that is really not the case.
     
  13. cool_myll

    cool_myll L1: Registered

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    Awesome map. People loved it on our server!!!
     
  14. Ezekel

    Ezekel L10: Glamorous Member

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    well i'm hoping to crank out one last version before the deadline at the end of the month.

    if I don't manage to do that though, I'm strongly considering not submitting to the contest, if only cos I know that whatever version I end up submitting will almost certainly be the last time I work on moonlit.
    the next version will focus on rejiggering of details to try and satisfy the eye in some of the barest places. a return of the stair case down into the blue hidden base and other gameplay tweaks like (e.g. underworld damage and triggering).
     
  15. Vincent

    aa Vincent What a luser

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    Other than the second screenshot this looks a tad flat.
    Nice detailing though.
     
  16. Ezekel

    Ezekel L10: Glamorous Member

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    ok new version is up. together with new screenshots to go with it
     
  17. bob+M|M+

    bob+M|M+ L6: Sharp Member

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  18. Tech

    aa Tech

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    pl_moonlit_b6​


    Gameplay

    Gameplay wise the map is balanced for both teams and all classes. Providing both, height advantage for airborne classes and cramped space for close combat classes, the map doesn't exclude any class. However, the map has quite a lot of flanking routs which often provide quite an advantage for blue team.

    Talking about cramped space, there are some chokes in the map, both providing advantage for red team, and rarely blue team. One of the most noticeable chokes is the 2nd capture point, most of the times when red manages to win, it happens in this place, as long as there is a well set up defense. However, this choke can be easily avoided using flaking routes.

    Another thing, which is not bad, is the cramped gameplay space in some buildings, thought providing an interesting gameplay for close-combat classes, this can be annoying for those with high splash damage, and often is avoided.
    Spies and Pyros, are the ones that dominate such areas, although the map is well made, allowing classes to flank around the enemy player.

    Balance

    As i said before, the map is balanced for all classes, providing both height and choke points. Team wise the map plays really good, averaging a 60%/40% win/lose ration for blue team, which in my opinion is the best ratio, considering how it is in other official TF2 maps.

    One of the major balance problems is in the choke points, providing really cramped gameplay space(refer to images bellow), often only one class is in a advantage and can cause a major pain. However, due to the good connectivity in the map, these areas can be easily avoided, in the same time focusing on the main gameplay element.

    Another thing i'd like to mention is the underground, being a linear push for blue team, it often tend to be rather boring and in the same time exploitable. Red team can easily set up a defense protecting both the cart, and not allowing to blue exit out from the only entrance. Adding some focal points, like the skull in eyeaduct, might break out the linear gameplay, turning the interesting dynamic element into a unique fighting space.

    Dynamic element

    Dynamic element in this map, is really unique and fits the map theme, offering players a rather interesting change from maps dim lighting, to a more contrast, however more dangerous setting. The underground is a interesting fight space where players have to take note of the world damage and also focus one the main object.

    However, in my opinion, the underground offers more advantage to red team than it does to blue team, as in, blue team is supposed to push the cart without getting any noticeable reward. In this case, pushing the cart throughout the underground should move the cart few units forward in the world, so that blue would be rewarded. In case of not being able to push the cart throughout the underground, it should be teleported back to the original location, as it is now.

    Aesthetics

    Aesthetics in this map is one of the things that is often underrated by the public. First of all this map is the one which by so far can be called almost ready to be shipped product. There is nothing major that should be added, nor anything that should be fixed.

    However, one of the main issues of the map, is the rather boring environmental lighting, the map feels really grey, without any other contrast that could catch the players eye. Some things that stand out are the pumpkins, although they should be the main focus points of the map. Improving the environmental settings, will make the map more pleasant for players eye.

    Detail wise, the map has it's own touches, which often will be missed in gameplay situation, however, still it makes the map stand out in the crowd.
    Shooting range in blue spawn is one of the examples of touches, expected to be a non-accessible area, the map does the opposite allowing the player to explore.

    Some things, that I have noticed:

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/moonlit/pl_moonlit_b60000.jpg
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/moonlit/pl_moonlit_b60001.jpg
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/moonlit/pl_moonlit_b60002.jpg
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/moonlit/pl_moonlit_b60018.jpg
    Such small details make the map stand in the crowd.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/moonlit/pl_moonlit_b60003.jpg
    Light shows up here, without any source of it.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/moonlit/pl_moonlit_b60004.jpg
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/moonlit/pl_moonlit_b60009.jpg
    The rocket seems to be the main objective of the map, blue has to reach, however it isn't so.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/moonlit/pl_moonlit_b60005.jpg
    Shadow cast under stairs.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/moonlit/pl_moonlit_b60006.jpg
    Such trim doesn't really look good.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/moonlit/pl_moonlit_b60007.jpg
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/moonlit/pl_moonlit_b60013.jpg
    Lighting up the main signs, is nice.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/moonlit/pl_moonlit_b60008.jpg
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/moonlit/pl_moonlit_b60014.jpg
    Floating.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/moonlit/pl_moonlit_b60012.jpg
    I'd expect this model to be used for grain, not something else.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/moonlit/pl_moonlit_b60016.jpg
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/moonlit/pl_moonlit_b60019.jpg
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/moonlit/pl_moonlit_b60020.jpg
    Cramped game space.

    Performance

    As with most contest maps, I had no performance issues with this one. However there were some minor things, that don't really affect the performance that much, however are noticeable to the players eye. Some props have low fade distance, most often train in out of bond area. Otherwise the map is one of the best performance wise in this contest.
     
  19. sitebender

    sitebender L3: Member

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    I've played Moonlit a few times before and it is a quality map under any circumstance. It is a joy to play and would be a pleasure to master. The Halloween is subtle and the portal to the nethertrack is an extremely nice touch. The color pallet is great, its not just the same color.

    The only flaw I found is from point 3 - 4 the red bots try to enter out of a closed door. Every class has a purpose. There are nice bottlenecks and paths to come from any area without being chaotic. Really enjoyable map. Tons of fun to play.