CTF Infiltration b15

[DonutVikingChap]

[Steam Workshop page]

Hello! I'm Donut the Vikingchap and this is my first TF2 map, Infiltration.


Story:

BLU received information from their undercover spies that RED were, for unknown reasons, setting up a secret base in a forest somewhere in northern Scandinavia. This being a very odd move by RED, BLU knew for sure that something was going on. They gathered a team of highly trained soldiers to organize an attack on what the spies finally found out was a huge facility for research and production of bombs!

BLU's mission is to (not so discreetly) infiltrate the facility and put an end to RED's plans by stealing their intelligence and sending the information back to BLU.


Description:

The gamemode is a special one-way CTF with a defending team and an attacking team. The attackers (BLU) have to take the intelligence and bring it back to their base where the intel carrier has to capture a control point to win. The defenders (RED) have to protect the intelligence until the time runs out.

The point of this gamemode is to create a more fun variant of Capture the Flag that makes people focus more on the objective rather than having an endless deathmatch in the middle of the map (see: any official CTF map ever). I am trying to achieve this by making the rounds pretty fast paced and making sure that the attackers actually rush in for the objective rather than staying back and doing nothing. To do this I have made RED's base the central part of the map and tried to make it as interesting to play in as possible.

To counter the RED team setting up the world's biggest sentry farm in the intel room and calling it a day, RED gets very little setup time and there are many different ways for the attackers to get into the big intel room. These include several doorways on different levels, a basement and a vent. I've also made the rounds short and RED's respawn times significantly longer than BLU's.

To make sure that defending isn't too hard though, the intel gets reset very quickly if it gets dropped, which means killing the intel carrier is very rewarding.


Currently known issues (Beta 15):

- The announcer says "We have taken the enemy intelligence" and "Time has been added" at the same time (might be possible to fix with a "level_sounds.txt" file, will look into this for RC)
- The optimization needs some more work
- The fence models don't line up great with the rest of the gate walls and guard towers. I might make some custom fence models for them.
- The map currently lacks a proper navigation mesh for bots
- The map currently lacks a custom loading screen, intro movie and in-game map description
- The water texture in the basement sways so that it looks like the submerged part of the fences move

Please let me know if you find any more issues!


Special thanks to:

Thee Bakscratch for being the official sniper spot finder

Dr. Spud for making ctf_haarp and giving me inspiration

Seba and Fr0Z3n for giving good feedback and gameplay-/optimization ideas

::Egan:: for hosting gamedays/impromptus and coming up with a way to solve the intel time add bug

Hampshire Heavies for playtesting the map and giving feedback

ScottJAw for featuring the map (version Beta 14) on his Map Monday series

Steam users who have left useful feedback and suggestions on the map's Steam Workshop page

Everyone else who has helped playtest the map and/or given feedback!

 

[The Asylum]

Spoiler

I'm sorry, that's the first thing I thought of when I saw this lol.

One thing in your description stands out for me though, about the intel returning very quickly. Has this map been through a playtest before? I'm not so sure it'd be very friendly for BLU.

The detailing looks great, though :O

 

[DonutVikingChap]

Spoiler

I'm sorry, that's the first thing I thought of when I saw this lol.

One thing in your description stands out for me though, about the intel returning very quickly. Has this map been through a playtest before? I'm not so sure it'd be very friendly for BLU.

The detailing looks great, though :O

Yeah, we tested the sas4 version (don't mind my stupid version names) in an impromptu when the server had 24 players, and the 10 - 15 second reset time works pretty well in my opinion.

It's basically to counter being able to just constantly rush the intel with bonk scouts or spies and get away with it.

 

[DonutVikingChap]

Alpha 2 out now!

I have taken a lot of feedback from the recent impromptus and slightly refined some of the interior and exterior layout (including making it more open and adding more medkits). I have also added new mechanics to the capture system.

BLU now gets 25 seconds of extra time when they pick up the intelligence from its starting location (rather than overtime) and to counter it the intel now only has a 5 second reset time.

Hopefully this will make the gameplay a bit more interesting since RED won't be as screwed if someone runs off with the intel and BLU won't be as screwed if they just managed to push into the intel room and there's only 5 seconds left on the timer.

It will be interesting to see how this turns out in the upcoming gameday and/or impromptus.

 

[Sergis]

the whole huge outdoor area seems kinda useless with all the red concentrating at flag

this might be a map that would actually benefit from attackers having to run somewhat past defenders spawn

 

[DonutVikingChap]

the whole huge outdoor area seems kinda useless with all the red concentrating at flag

this might be a map that would actually benefit from attackers having to run somewhat past defenders spawn

Well the outdoor area is mostly for aesthetics, a big part of it will be part of a 3D skybox when I get around to doing that. But what do you mean by having the attackers run past the defenders spawn? Are you suggesting putting the intel further back?

 

[Sergis]

idk its just there is one big fight at the intel and the rest is little local fluff and the huge hill run

some reason for red to have a forward hold might be neat

 

[DonutVikingChap]

idk its just there is one big fight at the intel and the rest is little local fluff and the huge hill run

some reason for red to have a forward hold might be neat

The intention is pretty much for them to hold up at the intel though, BLU are "infiltrating" after all

 

[Fantaboi]

It's a little early to be working on aestethics, but anyway.
The red team doesn't seem to follow their normal art style, it's usually wooden compared to the blu team's base. Looks good so far though!

 

[DonutVikingChap]

It's a little early to be working on aestethics, but anyway.
The red team doesn't seem to follow their normal art style, it's usually wooden compared to the blu team's base. Looks good so far though!

I know but that's mostly on symmetrical maps like 2fort or granary and this is more like A/D

 

[Forty-Two]

I posted some screenshots and criticism.

There are three main problems with this map:

1. The map is too small

By this I mean not that the size of the map is to small, but everything in the map is too small. All the corridors are very narrow and short (heightwise). There are no open spaces inside the base, really dampening the effectiveness of classes such as the solly, demo, sniper, and scout. You can't reallyy get away from walls either, making splash damage a huge factor. There are also no natural chokepoints for people to hold at. The entire base is just completely closed in, and everywhere can be totally spamed out.

2. There are too many flanking routes

There are so many routes that offense can take, it really impairs the defense to a point where they can't defend any more. A standard amount of routes into an area is 2-3 (1 major and 2 minor, or 2 major). This creates a balanced part of the map where chokepoints develop, but can be broken through. You have 5 minor entrances into the base, and another 5 minor entrances into the flag room. That is way too many for the defense to properly set up against, even when you want to make the area easy to assault. It also does not establish some main paths where the offense should be attacking. Try slimming down the amount to 2-3 entrances into the base (I suggest 2 major and 1-2 minor), and the same amount into the flag room.

The opening lines of Collosal Cave read

You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.

This map reminds me of this. All the passages are small, and it it hard to tell where you are going. Making some large main routes with small routes connecting them would really help you out here. Take a look at what David Johnston has written about casbah (a cs map with much the same problem). That should help you figure out what you need to do...

3. Your health and ammo placement is bad

I wrote a bit about this in the album, but I didn't cover all examples. Generally full pickups should only be placed outside of the gates on payload so engies can load up, and in places where it will be tough to get so there is a high reward (egypt/5gorge). All of your full pickups should definitely be downgraded to med ones. The full ones in the flag room should be downgraded to smalls because of the spawn right next to them. I suggest placing some medium hp about halfway between the entrances and the exits of the base, so blue/red can hold it better. Radaska has an excellent tutorial on pickup placement.


Other stuff

--The map seems to go like

Hill->Maze->Flag room

You might want to add some intermediate areas in between, at least to make it so that blu has a more interesting time attacking the base when they are stuck on the hill.

--The hill is useless

Get rid of it and give blu longer respawn times. It's less boring.

--You might want to develop with dev textures until you get the layout right. You've put a lot of effort into an artpass which will probably be mostly invalidated by you changing the map layout.

 

[DonutVikingChap]

-snip-

I really appreciate your feedback but I hope you understand that the layout is in no way final and I am constantly tinkering with it to find out what works the best. A lot of the map also isn't finised which is why you might find random dead ends or "useless rooms".

Now for the more specific things:

1. Flanking routes

There is a reason why there are a lot of them. It is to counter sentry spam and camping in general. The gamemode is not your run of the mill A/D or CTF which means the layout can't be looked at in the same way.

In A/D for example, the point is to rush in together with your team and secure the point to win. That's why it's much more streamlined with a few minor alternate routes to keep the teams fighting in the same place. In this map, however, RED (if they're smart) will stay by the intel and protect it all the time. If BLU only had a few ways to get in then they'd be doomed unless they managed to push several good übers at the same time. You also have to take into account that they not only have to get in to the intel, they have to get out with it before RED respawns again too.

I will agree though that it's not perfect in its current state but I'm thinking about ways to make the interior layout better.


2. Map being too small

This is an issue that I am very aware of but I have tried to solve it with having several open rooms inside the building. The loading dock area, for example, is completely different from what it used to be. What I might do to improve these areas is widen the hallways a bit more and make the ceilings higher to make it feel less like a "maze", because it really isn't one.

3. Health & Ammo placement

Again, I'm pretty much just experimenting with this at this point. Don't worry, the kit locations/sizes will definitely change.

4. Hill being useless

When you say this and suggest a closer spawn with longer respawn times it makes it seem like you're thinking about A/D again. The hill might be a bit boring in its current state but it's definitely not useless. As I mentioned earlier, not only do the attackers need to get to the intel, they also have to get away with it. So for example; the hill combined with short intel reset times mean BLU doesn't win instantly when they get out with the intel, they can get sniped while running up the hill or get chased down by a scout.

As a bonus, the hill fits the map asthetically and gives an awesome feeling to the attackers

 

[Forty-Two]

1. I mean there are too many. Too many. There is no way to write it off, there are just waaay too many flank routes for it to be a reasonable map. A better way to counter sentry spam is to make the flag room larger than what a single sentry can cover, and reuce line of sight blocks in the room (being careful to not make sniper op)

Also: defense is boring. Making is so that red has to babysit the intel may be fun for a bit, but it can get annoying after a while. Imagine a perpetual hold of the last point in a 5cp map... Making it so that red can push up some and hold other areas would really help make playing red more interesting and fun.

2. There aren't any 'open' rooms. (Except for the flag room...). Everything has a very low ceiling, and that just contributes to the cramped feeling of the map. Take a look at some of the valve maps. The indoors areas all have around 1.5-2 times the height of a player as the hallway/building height. (I don't know the exact amounts...). A lot of this map just seems to be made for a game with smaller players...

4. Maybe you could flatten out the hill some, and add some building in between, so that the fighting shifts back a bit. As I mentioned at the end, the map feels fairly small in terms of architecture, and there isn't enough room for fighting in the base. Adding some fighting space outside would increase the chances for recapture and increase the depth of the map.

I suggest you read some of the links that I posted as they are quite useful and you will benefit from them. Also: have you considered making this a classic a/d map? (The attackers have to take the flag to the flag room). That could be interesting in playtesting, but I'm not condoning it yet.

 

[DonutVikingChap]

Alright, Alpha 3 is out now with a few medium-sized changes to make the RED base bigger inside! The biggest changes are that the main hallway is now much taller and the intel platform is further back, essentially making the intel room bigger. The loading dock area has also been made even more open.

The issue of the map feeling a bit cramped might not be completely fixed yet, but I think this is a step in the right direction!

 

[DonutVikingChap]

Updated again to Alpha 4! I got a lot of useful feedback in the gameday yesterday and I've made changes to the map accordingly. The biggest change is that the RED team now gets a shorter respawn time when the intel is picked up, and a door behind their spawn leading directly out to the yard area that also opens when the intel is picked up. This will mean that the flag carrier will be easier to kill when he tries to run back with the intelligence, meaning RED won't be absolutely screwed when that happens.

 

[DonutVikingChap]

Very big update this time to Alpha 5, the map is now sort of properly optimized! (Though perhaps not entirely) The map is getting closer and closer to Beta as there are now Areaportals, hint brushes and a proper 3D skybox!

Since the optimization I'm now getting around 300 FPS in the outdoor area and around 500 FPS in the indoor area rather than 150 FPS and 400 FPS. (I have a GTX 680 and a 3770K and I'm running Chris' maxquality config)

 

[TheBestUsername]

I don't know about the gameplay, but the visuals of this map are absolutely superb.

 

[DonutVikingChap]

A6 is out now with some minor gameplay changes and fixes based on feedback from the recent gamedays and impromptus!

 

[DonutVikingChap]

Some pretty big changes this time around in Alpha 7!
First of all that big, seemingly pointless room with a huge window has finally been detailed, complete with func_tracktrains! Also, the capture point looks a bit better now and the hill is now a bunch of Power 3 displacements rather than 4. There are also some small fixes and changes, check the changelog for full details.

 

[Deodorant]

First, let me say that for a first map this is pretty great. The detailing looks nicely TF2-styled, and while I haven't played the map and therefore can't comment on the gameplay, it's nowhere near as blatantly broken as basically all first maps are. It's certainly leagues ahead of my first map, and it may or may not be better than my current efforts. Those things being said, here's some negative stuff.

I really appreciate your feedback but I hope you understand that the layout is in no way final and I am constantly tinkering with it to find out what works the best. A lot of the map also isn't finised which is why you might find random dead ends or "useless rooms".

Now for the more specific things:

1. Flanking routes

There is a reason why there are a lot of them. It is to counter sentry spam and camping in general. The gamemode is not your run of the mill A/D or CTF which means the layout can't be looked at in the same way.

In A/D for example, the point is to rush in together with your team and secure the point to win. That's why it's much more streamlined with a few minor alternate routes to keep the teams fighting in the same place. In this map, however, RED (if they're smart) will stay by the intel and protect it all the time. If BLU only had a few ways to get in then they'd be doomed unless they managed to push several good übers at the same time. You also have to take into account that they not only have to get in to the intel, they have to get out with it before RED respawns again too.

I will agree though that it's not perfect in its current state but I'm thinking about ways to make the interior layout better.


2. Map being too small

This is an issue that I am very aware of but I have tried to solve it with having several open rooms inside the building. The loading dock area, for example, is completely different from what it used to be. What I might do to improve these areas is widen the hallways a bit more and make the ceilings higher to make it feel less like a "maze", because it really isn't one.

3. Health & Ammo placement

Again, I'm pretty much just experimenting with this at this point. Don't worry, the kit locations/sizes will definitely change.

4. Hill being useless

When you say this and suggest a closer spawn with longer respawn times it makes it seem like you're thinking about A/D again. The hill might be a bit boring in its current state but it's definitely not useless. As I mentioned earlier, not only do the attackers need to get to the intel, they also have to get away with it. So for example; the hill combined with short intel reset times mean BLU doesn't win instantly when they get out with the intel, they can get sniped while running up the hill or get chased down by a scout.

As a bonus, the hill fits the map asthetically and gives an awesome feeling to the attackers

You really need to stop doing this. I know I used to do this. I hope I've stopped doing it. I totally recognize how you're thinking.
You've planned your map carefully. Someone questions your design choices, you respond by stating why you made these choices. Here's the thing, though: no matter how good your intellectual reasoning is, an instinctive 'this feels wrong' from an outside perspective basically always trumps it. Like when you say that the map really isn't a maze; the layout makes perfect sense to you because you've spent a bunch of time in Hammer constructing it from scratch, but if someone else who plays the map says it feels like a maze there's a decent chance that a lot of people who'll play the map in the future will think it feels like a maze, and that in turn is a really good sign that you need to make your layout simpler and clearer.
Also, what does the 'I hope you understand that the layout is in no way final..' thing mean? We all know the map is a work in progress. That's why we're giving you feedback.


On a completely different note, don't detail your map prematurely. Start out building your map out of devtextured base geometry, and keep it that way through all the alpha stages. Only when (if) your layout ever gets perfected should you proceed to the beta stages and start putting in the esthetic stuff. Redesigning your layout is much easier when you don't have a bunch of visual crap to delete and rebuild every time.

I'm tired as hell and pretty drunk. Hope I'm making sense anyway. Good luck!