CP Harbour [Deleted]

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Trotim

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Jul 14, 2009
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I think that makes more sense than "just keep the door open" ever did - the distance from 2nd to last would be way too short
 

Sel

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Feb 18, 2009
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Updated to a11e

pretty much just changed a11d to reflect the changes shown in the previous post, since setting up the one I'm detailing would be a lot more effort.

details in first post
 

Jyyst

L1: Registered
Aug 24, 2012
33
10
What light entities are you using at 4th picture? Those are exactly the kind of lights I've been looking for.
 

Sel

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Feb 18, 2009
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Updated to a12, details in first post.

I'm not going to take new pictures because it is literally 3:30 in the morning and I am exhausted.

E: There seems to be some weird bug where blu's last is wonky with the HUD, but it doesn't appear to actually affect the actual timings of the cap or anything else, so I'm not going to spend hours trying to solve some problem that might just be from the sdk being buggy or something.
 
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Sel

Banned
Feb 18, 2009
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Updated to a13

Details in first post, screenshots have been updated.
 

tyler

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Sep 11, 2013
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I think you overdid the lights in the bases, and the contrast between super dreary outdoor light vs weird dreamy hazy indoor light is frankly bizarre and disorienting.

Booj did a neat thing in his arptass for the long fluorescent lights where he made a (I think) sprite texture and put that under them, rather than several small sprite lights. You need to do that, and also probably cut down on the amount of lighting in general. I don't know what exactly you've done to achieve this, maybe using light ents on damn near every prop? But you really don't need to. The suggestion is enough.
 

Sel

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Feb 18, 2009
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I have put no effort into the outdoor lighting yet, and the base pictures are old, I've already gotten rid of the light glows.
 

phi

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Nov 6, 2011
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Updated to a18, download in first post. a17 was a dead version because I'm a doofus.

Updates mostly include remaking mid completely to what will hopefully be a more sustainable layout, and planning out changes for mid->2nd and last lobby. Lots of changes in plan for this map. Got some good ideas.

2015-03-16_00001.jpg

2015-03-16_00006.jpg
 

Spipper

Former cheese man Gorgonzola
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Feb 18, 2012
246
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It's hella cool seeing this map still being developed. I have always admired the designs of both the 2nd and last point.
Have you completely inherited the development of the map or are Sel still involved?
 

phi

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Nov 6, 2011
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As of now I'm the only one actually putting together the map in Hammer, but Sel still has say in pretty much anything.

With that being said, here's a19. Small changes but honestly I don't have much time to make huge ones (yet) so here. Any testing (comp or pub) is appreciated.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/HARBOUR/cp_harbour_a19.bsp.bz2

- Changed lower flank from 2nd->mid
- Created high ground in far corner of second
- Manipulated clipping around 2nd
- changed nearly all 1:1 stairs to 2:3 ones
- minor changes to mid
- lighting in spots
 

phi

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Nov 6, 2011
832
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Oh yeah, a20. Forgot. I don't even remember what I changed but I know it's significant. Something around last lobby and second or smth.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/HARBOUR/cp_harbour_a20.bsp.bz2

It would also help if people left reasonable feedback here. More than the lame !fb and !gf crap I get in-server. If anyone wants to be helpful and point out flaws in the layout that would be great, but maybe I'm expecting too much.
 
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Idolon

they/them
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Feb 7, 2008
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I kinda want there to be more height variation on mid. Maybe move this building up 64 units or so? There was a lot of comments in the last playtest that the map seemed to be hard to push out of, and I think that might have to do with the map's overall flatness. It could also be because of a million other things, so maybe not.

On a similar note, maybe make this route slope upwards to the point somehow?

Now, on to 2nd. It's really open! You have to leave from any advantage the map gives you to get to the point. As a result, it seems to pretty much be a matter of who has more dudes to capture the point. If there was any kind of cover or height advantage near the point (not necessarily directly by it), it's less of a numbers game and more of a tactics game (maybe you want it to be a numbers game?).

This sightline was pretty easy to spam as soldier to get easy damage. Maybe make this a shutter? I don't really feel confident in this feedback, but I'm leaving it anyways.

100% relevant to alpha testing

As someone who doesn't really do a lot of 5cp stuff, I really dig the final point design. The layout of the rooms is a lot of fun, and reminds me a bit of Quake dm maps. The scaling is perfect.

To other people reading this: Look at how much mileage you can get out of a single paint patch overlay. Like, damn. Maybe other maps do the same thing and I've just never noticed, but this is such a great way to get cheap detail.

I already mentioned it in the WIP thread, but the lighting is flat. You can probably keep the environment lighting the same as long as you brighten stuff up with spotlights. I've got pretty shitty eyesight, and I found a lot of the map kinda hard to read during yesterday's test. Don't be afraid to use lights at around 2000 brightness.
 

phi

aa
Nov 6, 2011
832
1,815
Thanks a ton! Great, relevant feedback. Been a while since I've received some of that from tf2m. I'll go through it one by one:

I kinda want there to be more height variation on mid. Maybe move this building up 64 units or so? There was a lot of comments in the last playtest that the map seemed to be hard to push out of, and I think that might have to do with the map's overall flatness. It could also be because of a million other things, so maybe not.

Flatness might be an issue. Comparing it to other 5cp mids (which I did a lot of in the development process, trust me); the mid is somewhat flat, I agree. The high ground exists in a nice spotand is definitely a great addition to the layout but yeah, some additional variation that wouldn't be annoying to navigate would be interesting.

Raising that building might be in the question, although it would make it troublesome to jump up to when you're walking on the point...


...unless I raised the point along with it. Unsure if that's a great idea, to raise both the point and the building to the same degree. Might not actually fix anything and just serve to make mid more complex.

About the "hard to push out of" in last playtest, those type of things happen really often in 5CP pub, especially when the two teams are evenly matched (as they were in the test). Process and snake are good examples of this, specially process, that one doesn't perform well in pubs imo. Guess that could be something I aim for with this map but I dunno.

Now, on to 2nd. It's really open! You have to leave from any advantage the map gives you to get to the point. As a result, it seems to pretty much be a matter of who has more dudes to capture the point. If there was any kind of cover or height advantage near the point (not necessarily directly by it), it's less of a numbers game and more of a tactics game (maybe you want it to be a numbers game?).

Yeah that was one of the main things I talked about with Sel regarding his older versions. The point is really flat and open and I totally agree. I did add a highground/cover to the upper corner of the arena near 'granary ramp room', but I see what you're saying. 5CP is primarily a numbers game, but it wouldn't hurt to put a little tiny bit more around the point. Not too much though, because the second point was definitely the most back-and-forth of any point in the gametests, so I don't want to support camping or turtling.

This sightline was pretty easy to spam as soldier to get easy damage. Maybe make this a shutter? I don't really feel confident in this feedback, but I'm leaving it anyways.

Yeah same with this area. Was an issue I wasn't a fan of in previous versions and that new high ground/cover served to alleviate that position a little, didn't do much I guess. I'll have to figure out something.


Well now it's beta so it's 110% relevant. Blame Sel for that and blame me for the redesign of that room that's coming

As someone who doesn't really do a lot of 5cp stuff, I really dig the final point design. The layout of the rooms is a lot of fun, and reminds me a bit of Quake dm maps. The scaling is perfect.
To other people reading this: Look at how much mileage you can get out of a single paint patch overlay. Like, damn. Maybe other maps do the same thing and I've just never noticed, but this is such a great way to get cheap detail.

Blame Sel for these too/two (he made a pretty damn good last)

I already mentioned it in the WIP thread, but the lighting is flat. You can probably keep the environment lighting the same as long as you brighten stuff up with spotlights. I've got pretty shitty eyesight, and I found a lot of the map kinda hard to read during yesterday's test. Don't be afraid to use lights at around 2000 brightness.

Don't fret, we're fixing that up sometime this week for a beta release sometime down the line. Good to bring it up though, figured all anyone would say to those screenshots was "oh wow edit your prop fade distance you pleb" but it's good someone actually took something relevant out of them. Props to you.
 

Prolyfic

L5: Dapper Member
Dec 19, 2014
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Beta 1 on 2/3 weeks after you stared on March = fast and perfect

I like that !

But every older versions, I didn't tested all :/
 
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