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PL gloryhole b1

Made by grazr

  1. grazr

    aa grazr Mmm, hhhyes. indubitably.

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    I tend to find they do that when they take direct sunlight with high HDR settings. At first i was using 1.1 but even the dirt ground was hella bright, i reduced it to 1, but it's still pretty bright. Will probably change it to .8 and see what happens. I believe that's what Lumberyard uses.

    Turning specular off is the first thing i do.

    The cubes appear to be there:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2012
  2. ics

    ics L5: Dapper Member

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    So it would seem but did you pack them yourself or did the game added them automatically? I couldn't get self pakratted cubemaps to work either. If you go delete them from tf/materials/maps/mapname/ - do you still see them ok in your map?
     
  3. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    When I look into the file with Pakrat, there are no cubemaps there (i think. Dunno what the water and glass things are.)

    [​IMG]

    I don't know if that's helpful. I feel like a child carrying random kitchen implements to a parent who is trying to cook.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2012
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  4. ics

    ics L5: Dapper Member

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    Actually LeSwordfish is correct. I also checked the file you have for download and it has no cubemaps packed. Did you upload correct file ?
     
  5. grazr

    aa grazr Mmm, hhhyes. indubitably.

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    Well that's the file in my maps folder and we all played together, if it was a different version then i'd have been kicked from the server like i was with a2.

    No i didn't manually pack the cubes, they were there after i built them, ics.

    I'm gonna make a new version (a4) tomorrow, and try to be certain of which bsp i'm uploading. This is most puzzling indeed. I'm hoping it's just a mistake on my end because fuck if i know how to troubleshoot this issue if it's a Source glitch.
     
  6. stevethepocket

    aa stevethepocket I can fix it!

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    Now that we're more or less clear on the cubemaps thing, I have another comment about the map. Or more accurately, a suggestion. The dynamic element on the bridge doesn't really make any sense to me, and I'm not a fan of "stand somewhere else to make this unlock" elements in payload in general. Given that it's a bridge, it seems like making it into a drawbridge, and then changing the tunnels so it looks like the river could actually be used by small boats, would accomplish more or less the same thing and make more sense.
     
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  7. grazr

    aa grazr Mmm, hhhyes. indubitably.

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    The original intention was to have the bridge raise out of the water, but having a "stand here to activate X over a period of time" proved a complicated thing to achieve and in the end i forewent it for the static bridge as i also had issue with the reflections either showing the bridge when it wasn't there or not showing it when it was. A minor aesthetic issue i know but one that bugged me enough to chose a simpler concept that would be quicker to implement considering the time constraints of the contest.

    No it doesn't make 100% sense, probably because there's no direct connection between the bridge and the powered rail, but then not many of the capture mechanics in TF2 do. There's a certain higher limit for suspension of disbelief for these things that i hope simply getting used to the idea will make it more acceptable.

    I'm willing to remove it if more people voice dislikes for this particular mechanic, initially it was supposed to be the mechanic at the end which pushed the cart along a rail and into a pit outside the play area but i couldn't think of a decent finalé that could be seen by all the players and a cliff seemed like a cop out idea. Since i still wanted to implement the experimental mechanic i kinda threw it in here. I've been "um'ing" and "ah'ing" about removing either this or the turn table because i do have enough dynamic events already really but the turn table serves as a buffer for the CP1-2 change over which is necassery because of the linear proximity between the points.

    I'm not sure what peoples opinions on this matter are?

    Also, any comments about any other particularly bad parts of the map are welcome. Most of them have only been about locked gates but i'm hoping people will eventually remember which ones open and when, just like in badwater. There's no real way to hint unless i work in some respawn visualisers but i'm hoping that since badwater gets away with it by letting the player discover for himself after one or two tests that i can leave it as that too.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2012
  8. grazr

    aa grazr Mmm, hhhyes. indubitably.

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    pl_gloryhole_a4 now available.​

    Cubes and custom content should be present. I've made sure to do everything proper.

    Changelog:
    Increased a small health to medium by CP1.
    Various roofs displaced.
    Various stone walls displaced.
    Additional minor details, overlays, props, etc.
    Reduced HDR to .8 max exposure (from 1).

    http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=5067
     
  9. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    Cubemaps do show up in pakrat, though i can't speak for in-game.
     
  10. grazr

    aa grazr Mmm, hhhyes. indubitably.

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  11. Rexy

    aa Rexy The Kwisatz Haderach

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    Whichever point it is that caps and causes red to move back to the last spawn, from that point at least to where the cart is seems like a very very long walk. Just a thought.

    Also, the 30 sec respawn time seemed to compound that effect, but that can be fixed np.
     
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  12. grazr

    aa grazr Mmm, hhhyes. indubitably.

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    Third cap moves red back and 4th moves BLU forward. But i put in a CP2 based shortcut door to CP3 outside the RED spawn that allows RED players, importantly the engi's, to setup a fallback nest in a manner like RED losing CP2 on badwater. CP2>3 on badwater tends to go largely uncontested unless an engineer moves his gear into that gulley; and i've attempted to replicate this concept during this CP2>3 transition to help eliviate the sudden move. The distance is also very similar to badwater and the map has been largely balanced on the idea that RED &BLU has at least 1 engineer.

    My main problem with this of course is that RED actually physically moves spawn so the engi has to run back to the finalé to setup his entrance, unlike in badwater which is much much smoother.

    That was the idea at the moment anyway. Hopefully rectifying the spawn timers will eliviate the problem, along with map knowledge on the players behalf.
     
  13. grazr

    aa grazr Mmm, hhhyes. indubitably.

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    pl_gloryhole_a5 out now.​

    changelog:
    Fixed respawn wave timers being double than inteded.
    Fixed respawn visualisers to BLU setup gates and RED's secondary spawn.
    Fixed several clipping exploits.
    Fixed random cart jiggle after completing automatic roll-forward elevator, behind CP2.
    Lowered HDR to .8 for real this time.
    Assigned nobuild's to stairs to prevent tele griefing.
    Various health/ammo pack changes.
    Attempted to fix players getting stuck in 1way door by CP2 (untested).
    Attempted to fix cart flipping over the pit (untested).
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2012
  14. Trotim

    aa Trotim

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    The water all over the last point makes that area really uninteresting. It's like you took Badwater last and then made the floor water, only leaving the track. It does not play well. The rest of the area isn't amazing either, lots of long flat walks, everything looks like ~25% overscaled there to me. Not a fan of it.
     
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  15. grazr

    aa grazr Mmm, hhhyes. indubitably.

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    Well, i suppose i could raise the water so it's less deep, say to 16 units. I guess that way the water would add additional particle affects to all the combat and make it look a little more crazy which would be cool. Having that space unwalkable has been kinda bothering me too so don't think it's not something i haven't been keeping an eye on; but aesthetically it makes more sense and so far you're the only one to have really disliked it so much. I'll have all of Thursday to think about it and get some more opinions on it as the only complaint i've receieved several times about last at the moment has been that it can be difficult to get onto the pier. Which was kinda the design idea behind it.

    I think the scale just feels a little off because we've never played with a full server and the water only excasserbates the feeling of distance between 2 corners of the finalé as it's something of an obstacle that slows movement.

    I'll watch it carefully and get more opinions on it. I do see what you're saying, i'm just trying to consider alternatives that keep the fundimental map design intact.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2012
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  16. grazr

    aa grazr Mmm, hhhyes. indubitably.

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    pl_gloryhole_a6 is out now.​

    changelog:
    -Raised water depth from 224 to 48 units at finalé.
    -Added pit explosion.
    -Various clipping/collision rectifications.

    I wont be leaving the water at 48, it was simply what the level was when i packed the explosion for testing. I'll probably lower it to 32 or higher to 128 depending on whether people prefer the water dynamic or not.

    As far as the explosion is concerned, it hangs a bit too long and chugs low end systems (not much i can do about the latter issue, though). The size could be reduced by 25% as well if someone would like to rectify those 2 details for me that'd be great. If they could give the explosion more of a vertical style of explosion that'd be nice too, if not then it's functioning fine for an alpha right now so no worries. I know 2 or 3 people have offered to edit the explosion effect for me, so maybe someone post to say they'll do it before another does and i end up with a bunch of explosions :p
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2012
  17. Ptimz

    Ptimz L2: Junior Member

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    I don't think raising the floor is the best solution. Making the water you already have more interesting would probably server you better. More walkable surface around the point is a good step, but why not put in a good reason to be in the water? Put the point underwater, have a really strong sentry spot down there, tunnels, spawn exits, flanks, whatever.

    Plus, a gloryhole in 3 feet of water doesn't make much sense.
     
  18. grazr

    aa grazr Mmm, hhhyes. indubitably.

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    Well, making the water more interesting is one thing, but there's no reason for people to be in the water in the first place unless they ducked for cover; and aesthetically, given that the water is surrounded by industrial structures and contained within an entirely man made reservior, things like lillies and leaves like i've placed in other areas of the map don't make much sense.

    I could add more pipes and such, but there isn't any need for any accessable tunnels in the water when people are already complaining there's too much space.

    The interesting thing about gloryhole spillways is how odd they look when in use; and surrounding one with walkable surfaces takes away from their bizarre appearence. I'm assuming you mean then to provide a catwalk to the pit from directions other than the track?

    pl_gloryhole_a7 available now.​

    changelog:
    Various aesthetic changes.
    Added a limited number of observer points.
     
  19. Ezekel

    Ezekel L10: Glamorous Member

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    from playing last night (and i think that was the 1st time i've actually played the map too come to think of it), I had a couple of thoughts i wanted to make:

    i spent much of my time around final (probably due to being on red for 2 of the rounds and the low play count), as a result i can't really remember anything distinguishing in the earlier areas. that's likely due to the fact you've not fully detailed it yet.

    the last area is definitely memorable in shape and form, and I do like it from an asthetical perspective. However, I think on a largely populated server that much water around the final point won't work in your favour. Water is generally a lot like lower ground in TF2 with the added disadvantage of a speed debuff, and an eventual damage over time.
    I think your idea of making the water shallow enough to walk through is a good idea (perhaps 32 units though), however it'd be good to also have deeper parts as people associate large (horizontally speaking) bodies of water with extinguishing potential.
    - perhaps have the area near to the fountain/final be deeper, using a displacement surface to smoothly curve it down.

    another issue i noticed is that the upper balcony that looks out over the roll forward ramps. as a sniper i had an unprecidented view both of the doorway that the cart passes through and of much of the area to the far right (where there's a flank path for red). on a highly populated server that area will be hard to dislodge snipers from as the only access runs right past red's spawn door.


    finally, the chickenwire/metal wall/fence thing just before the cart makes the turn into the final area is a real nuisance. maybe it's just me, but i feel that as much as possible there should be space on both sides of the cart. It's not majorly bad as it can be seen by players as they push the cart towards it, but still is sort've annoying.
    also due to small playercount i can't really say if it was that important to gameplay. is it supposed to give blue more cover or red more cover? if it's for red, i'd say it's safe to remove it, since i'm guessing you'd rather the big final battle/holdup to be on the and around the ramps themselves rather than at that last turn.


    from the point of view of scaling, i'd say that from what i can remember of generally playing i didn't feel i was being kept too far from the action at any time, although i do vaguely remember getting lost and having to backtrack quite a bit through buildings and then a shallow river with waterwheels. it felt that when i took a wrong turn i had to backtrack all the was back to the far side of the river and waterwheels before i could find a path back up to the payload track. (if your map hasn't got waterwheels on it then disregard as i must be thinking of another)

    people might be feeling a scaling issue due to the large open areas of visible sky - this shouldn't be an issue once your detailing and skybox are in place thouhg.
     
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  20. Bloodhound

    Bloodhound L6: Sharp Member

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    Yes, I also think that this would be nice.

    Yeah, the balcony is really high. Which means it's very hard to take the sniper out, if you aren't a sniper yourself.

    Also the platform is really high, the only lower place you could jump to was the part near the tracks, and it really take some health to get there.

    IMO it could be removed completely, or at least you shouldn't make the platform higher (in the room before the platform you made a stair upwards, you should make it going downwards.