TheKieranator
L6: Sharp Member
- Mar 6, 2011
- 282
- 213
I think you're supposed to be able to get on the bridge. I do it all the time. It's not overpowered or anything.
PL Escarpment
- Thread starter Freyja
- Start date
-
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Your lighting is very flat, and not really accenting the details too well. I also don't see much exterior lighting sources.
One thing that I see is that your ceilings are dark, really really dark. You could either adjust the reflectivity of your floors, or use a neat little trick where you use a semi-dim light source the color of the shadow you want to cast. Place this light entity above the plane of your primary light sources, and it will place reducing the dark-ness/blotchiness of your ceilings. I see this a LOT our the final point, and in the log building.
One thing that I see is that your ceilings are dark, really really dark. You could either adjust the reflectivity of your floors, or use a neat little trick where you use a semi-dim light source the color of the shadow you want to cast. Place this light entity above the plane of your primary light sources, and it will place reducing the dark-ness/blotchiness of your ceilings. I see this a LOT our the final point, and in the log building.
D-d-d-double post. (disclaimer: all this feedback is of my own personal opinion on style and neatness)
Add something to this to show at long distances that there is wire, it is too thin to see far away. Also make the texture a tad smaller.
Floating saw, would be more fun if animated.
Baaaaad lighting on the bridge
And here
(honestly not sure if it is me, or the map. but should check)
make an actual roof on this, not just cover the top
Weird area-portal thin in blu spawn?
I feel like the cross-struts on this are a bit overdone, the density of detailing is relatively high compared to the rest of the area/facade. Either tone this down, or up the detail on the facade.
Use brush stairs, they look better.
Dark corner
Peeing tree (not really an issue, just funny)
It is painfully obvious that there isn't anything up there, and from some points, you can see that there really isn't any ground up there at all, which just (imo) looks weird. Suggestion is to add the displacement ground up there, add a few more trees, give it some depth.
This is a place where it is obvious that there isn't anything above the cliff (this is taken from the balcony over looking the bridge, red-spawn side)
Weird lighting on pipes
Alright, this is just an example of one area, but you have a lot of bare walls. Now, while I feel like that isn't bad, the lighting you have now doesn't really help make that area exciting. I personally think that a wall can remain bare, if the lighting and/or shadows on it are good.
And going back to lighting, I was mentioning this in chat with you, so you know a fix, but I just wanted to point out some area's that might be a problem...
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8526839/pl_escarpment_b10002.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8526839/pl_escarpment_b10004.jpg --- Light bleed here too
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8526839/pl_escarpment_b10008.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8526839/pl_escarpment_b10012.jpg
I do have HDR on. Hope this helps.
Add something to this to show at long distances that there is wire, it is too thin to see far away. Also make the texture a tad smaller.
Floating saw, would be more fun if animated.
Baaaaad lighting on the bridge
And here
(honestly not sure if it is me, or the map. but should check)
make an actual roof on this, not just cover the top
Weird area-portal thin in blu spawn?
I feel like the cross-struts on this are a bit overdone, the density of detailing is relatively high compared to the rest of the area/facade. Either tone this down, or up the detail on the facade.
Use brush stairs, they look better.
Dark corner
Peeing tree (not really an issue, just funny)
It is painfully obvious that there isn't anything up there, and from some points, you can see that there really isn't any ground up there at all, which just (imo) looks weird. Suggestion is to add the displacement ground up there, add a few more trees, give it some depth.
This is a place where it is obvious that there isn't anything above the cliff (this is taken from the balcony over looking the bridge, red-spawn side)
Weird lighting on pipes
Alright, this is just an example of one area, but you have a lot of bare walls. Now, while I feel like that isn't bad, the lighting you have now doesn't really help make that area exciting. I personally think that a wall can remain bare, if the lighting and/or shadows on it are good.
And going back to lighting, I was mentioning this in chat with you, so you know a fix, but I just wanted to point out some area's that might be a problem...
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8526839/pl_escarpment_b10002.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8526839/pl_escarpment_b10004.jpg --- Light bleed here too
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8526839/pl_escarpment_b10008.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8526839/pl_escarpment_b10012.jpg
I do have HDR on. Hope this helps.
Doctor Paprika
L4: Comfortable Member
- Apr 24, 2011
- 150
- 53
I know this is for the contest, but I think it would actually be a much better map without that log. I would like to play a release without it.
I'll be the toast of the town, the girl on the go
I'm the type of girl everyone, everyone should know
I'll be the one to watch, the girl in the flow
I'm the type of girl everyone, everyone should know
b2:
3d sky.
- still no finale, sorry guys, trying to work out the particle editor.
MUCH more optimization.
The broken bridge is now a lot easier to get onto.
Red spawn door is now properly aligned!
The small bug in the red spawning entities that no one probably noticed has now also been fixed.
The stairs in blue spawn and near CP-2 have now been clipped.
Laser is now clipped.
Various unclipped beams have been clipped.
Some silly fade distances have been rectified.
The little window near red forward spawn now has glass in it.
Most cliffs now have tops to them.
Reduced the time before you can push the cart again after the log has been moved.
Solidity on the log should be fixed now
Loooots of visual fixes, and clipping fixes, and nobuild fixes.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2347130/escarpment/uploads/pl_escarpment_b2.bsp.bz2
I'm the type of girl everyone, everyone should know
I'll be the one to watch, the girl in the flow
I'm the type of girl everyone, everyone should know
b2:
3d sky.
- still no finale, sorry guys, trying to work out the particle editor.
MUCH more optimization.
The broken bridge is now a lot easier to get onto.
Red spawn door is now properly aligned!
The small bug in the red spawning entities that no one probably noticed has now also been fixed.
The stairs in blue spawn and near CP-2 have now been clipped.
Laser is now clipped.
Various unclipped beams have been clipped.
Some silly fade distances have been rectified.
The little window near red forward spawn now has glass in it.
Most cliffs now have tops to them.
Reduced the time before you can push the cart again after the log has been moved.
Solidity on the log should be fixed now
Loooots of visual fixes, and clipping fixes, and nobuild fixes.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2347130/escarpment/uploads/pl_escarpment_b2.bsp.bz2
THats not too much.
Backlot used more ents for the crane and a shit ton more ents for the event version ghosts.
Backlot used more ents for the crane and a shit ton more ents for the event version ghosts.
There is, however, a line where I can stop optimizing. Partly my own skill level, and partly the nature of the map itself.
Red forward spawn seems one of the better optimized places in the map. If that's poor optimization then how do you call any map optimized?
Red forward spawn seems one of the better optimized places in the map. If that's poor optimization then how do you call any map optimized?
Trotim
aa
- Jul 14, 2009
- 1,195
- 1,045
Want to leave this here again because I got the impression it wasn't taken seriously: CP 2 is way hard to cap once even only one sentry is put there. RED spawning right behind the corner of the ledge makes that sentry spot just as ridiculous as the one in 2fort really.
The chicken wire texture being hard to spot (and probably too small scaled) doesn't help and you kinda want to NOT push the cart because the choke is already really narrow as it is. That's something that happens in a few PL maps but it's never actually a good thing imo
The alternate route fully around there is not obvious and the far longer way to walk so many people will go to the choke first and then past it to the alternate path, already half dead from all the spam. And then when you're behind RED spawn it's still hard to cap, especially because you can't attack/camp RED spawn from behind at all because of a closed door. (Also makes it super hard for Spies as well as causes RED Engineers to jump down, build, suicide to respawn as walking around back to resupply is no good option - not necessarily bad, just mentioning)
Now you kept saying this is the first time that chokepoint "happened" but I find that really hard to believe. I'm a person that knows TF2 maps but never played your map before beta and I think it's a ridiculous point that's even harder than Badwater's 2nd. I didn't play it many times, granted (so I never saw any parts of the map past 2nd...), but over time RED is only going to get better and better at defending and using specific spots of the map so it worries me.
By the way did any Engie before that test I played in actually build on the small house thing in the corner near 2nd? That's another amazing sentry spot, you just need a tele exit there. So there are three hard to attack sentry spots in that area alone
You could leave a little hole high in the chicken wire for demos to shoot in there. Small, specific change that nonetheless at least makes it possible to attack that one spot (but then there's still the spawn ledge) idk
tl;dr if engies put stuff near 2nd it's too difficult to cap, too easy to defend.
if they use wranglers it's instant gg. fix it fix it fix it
edit: oh and another thing - building stuff around 1st seems useless anyway so all RED engies will start building on 2nd right away
The chicken wire texture being hard to spot (and probably too small scaled) doesn't help and you kinda want to NOT push the cart because the choke is already really narrow as it is. That's something that happens in a few PL maps but it's never actually a good thing imo
The alternate route fully around there is not obvious and the far longer way to walk so many people will go to the choke first and then past it to the alternate path, already half dead from all the spam. And then when you're behind RED spawn it's still hard to cap, especially because you can't attack/camp RED spawn from behind at all because of a closed door. (Also makes it super hard for Spies as well as causes RED Engineers to jump down, build, suicide to respawn as walking around back to resupply is no good option - not necessarily bad, just mentioning)
Now you kept saying this is the first time that chokepoint "happened" but I find that really hard to believe. I'm a person that knows TF2 maps but never played your map before beta and I think it's a ridiculous point that's even harder than Badwater's 2nd. I didn't play it many times, granted (so I never saw any parts of the map past 2nd...), but over time RED is only going to get better and better at defending and using specific spots of the map so it worries me.
By the way did any Engie before that test I played in actually build on the small house thing in the corner near 2nd? That's another amazing sentry spot, you just need a tele exit there. So there are three hard to attack sentry spots in that area alone
You could leave a little hole high in the chicken wire for demos to shoot in there. Small, specific change that nonetheless at least makes it possible to attack that one spot (but then there's still the spawn ledge) idk
tl;dr if engies put stuff near 2nd it's too difficult to cap, too easy to defend.
if they use wranglers it's instant gg. fix it fix it fix it
edit: oh and another thing - building stuff around 1st seems useless anyway so all RED engies will start building on 2nd right away
Last edited:
Doctor Paprika
L4: Comfortable Member
- Apr 24, 2011
- 150
- 53
The choke Trotim is talking about reminds me of the one between A and B in Stage 1 of Gold Rush prior to the update that added a new route or two for attackers. It feels like a complete bottleneck when you're trying to push the cart through there. Trotim compared it to B on Badwater, but that has that big flank route around the back so Blu can clear off the roof. There's nothing like that here that I've been able to actually make work in game.
- Sep 5, 2009
- 912
- 684
Trotim said:
The last time I played Alys map was alpha 6 or 7 but I can vouch for this. Camping cp 2 was pretty easy. We were at the same spot for about 5 minutes while I just wrenched my sentry. Im pretty sure I mentioned this when I did it. I dont know how the second cp is now but thats how it used to be.
casual public gamer comment:
Dude your map looks really really cool. i always wanted to make a map like this, but my mapping skills are awful. You made the map that was in my head
I throw it up on my server. every thursday custom map evening sfchen.de:27015
Dude your map looks really really cool. i always wanted to make a map like this, but my mapping skills are awful. You made the map that was in my head
I throw it up on my server. every thursday custom map evening sfchen.de:27015
Here's the problem with point B, I think. RED has two major spots to build sentries: the balcony right outside of their spawn, and the lower platform across from it. Spies can't get onto the balcony, and it's almost impossible to snipe or shoot rockets at it without getting into the line of fire. Not only that, the flanking routes are practically useless at gaining any sort of upper hand. My recommendation would be to simply get rid of it and replace it with an interior staircase heading down to the ground level.
However, if you're dead set on keeping it, here's something you might consider instead:
This is one of the flanking routes for BLU. See that wall on the right, under the slanted roof? Right on the other side of that wall is RED's balcony. A properly positioned window on that wall facing the best sentry spot might allow BLU to attack sentries from the upper level here.
However, if you're dead set on keeping it, here's something you might consider instead:
This is one of the flanking routes for BLU. See that wall on the right, under the slanted roof? Right on the other side of that wall is RED's balcony. A properly positioned window on that wall facing the best sentry spot might allow BLU to attack sentries from the upper level here.