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  1. Karnage

    Karnage L3: Member

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    Round 1
    Blu team pushes the cart to the end of the round. The track snakes around old tool sheds and warehouses to Red Base Perimeter (a massive fence and canyon sealing off the Red Base from the rest of the world.) Two capture points: A and B. Layout is kind of a backwards "S" shape.

    Round 2
    The cart has crossed the perimeter, now the blu team must push the cart across the canyon bridge and into the Red Base. Here, the red team manufactures secret weapons under the shelter of huge mountain bunkers. Blu team must take them out before they are used!


    Known Issues - let me know if you find any!
    • 3D skybox is not seamless and is unfinished in some areas
    • some sort of areaportal issue on closed door that opens after point A capture in round 1
    • Ambient computer sounds seem too loud
    • Rocket pauses mid-air after launching for a few seconds (end of round seems to pause func_movelinear)
    • Rocket launch not visible from outside the base, need skybox rocket model

    Thanks
    • //AP (the people I talk to most about my map)
    • A Boojum Snark
    • StickZer0
    • alecom
    • Mr Late
    • The Political Gamer
    • All the playtesters
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2011
  2. Cynick

    Cynick L4: Comfortable Member

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    Looks great, detail wise. Can't wait to see a download!

    Oh yea, one thing. IMHO, the cap signs in the spawn room look kind of out of place. Maybe you could use spytech overlays instead?
     
  3. Karnage

    Karnage L3: Member

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    Thanks :)
    You're right about the cap signs, but it's still early days. Duly noted anyway
     
  4. honorum646

    honorum646 L6: Sharp Member

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  5. The Political Gamer

    aa The Political Gamer

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    The ground textures look super ugly and it looks like you usedHL2 textures. and thats a big no no in TF2. Next time you are in the texture browser type tf into the keywords box.
     
  6. Karnage

    Karnage L3: Member

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    I'm trying not to go OTT with detail so those things aren't too much of a concern right now, but thanks for pointing it out. Right now I want to get the other rounds into a playable state, then I want them tested thoroughly for balance issues and exploits - that's what I need advice on most
     
  7. alecom

    alecom L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Turn that ground in to a displacement and use the "paint alpha" tool. You will want to invert it first though, and then go crazy painting the rocky bit on

    Fix quickly and you miiiiiiight get a chance for a sunday test if nobody else submits!

    Also, those doors were annoying - and I don't know what you used for the visualizers, but they were probably what allowed the stickys to stay in the air. Any doors that will not be opening you should make clear, and some of them were supposed to open but were really hard to.
     
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  8. Karnage

    Karnage L3: Member

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  9. StickZer0

    aa StickZer0 💙💙💃💙💙

    Messages:
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    I downloaded and ran around the map.

    I really loved all the thought you've put into the map, with all the little detail areas and the doors that led into buildings, and even the metal door that (more or less) lined up with another metal door in the next stage!

    At no point did the map feel too open for snipers, which is a good sign, but it did feel spammy at times.

    Both stages were fairly confusing especially for red on stage 1 or blue on stage 2.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1471205/mapsfeedback/pl_bunkerdash_a40002.jpg
    Tiny itty bitty baby spawn corridor size

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1471205/mapsfeedback/pl_bunkerdash_a40003.jpg
    It would probably be better if these doors automatically opened, and stayed opened, onSetup, rather than just unlocked.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1471205/mapsfeedback/pl_bunkerdash_a40004.jpg
    This door is going into blue spawn, and is facing the wrong way

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1471205/mapsfeedback/pl_bunkerdash_a40005.jpg
    Replace this prop with some brushes so you can fill in that little hole

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1471205/mapsfeedback/pl_bunkerdash_a40006.jpg
    Select the top face of the roof in face edit mode, and then alt+right click this surface. That should realign the texture properly.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1471205/mapsfeedback/pl_bunkerdash_a40007.jpg
    A recurring problem I saw was that these tracks split off in other directions. I would highly reccomend NOT doing this unless you place one of those "end of track" sign things very close to where it splits so it is obvious that the cart does not follow that direction.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1471205/mapsfeedback/pl_bunkerdash_a40008.jpg
    These windows seem very thick

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1471205/mapsfeedback/pl_bunkerdash_a40009.jpg
    Random hole made me lol

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1471205/mapsfeedback/pl_bunkerdash_a40010.jpg
    This is a really useful doorway, so open up this corridor more, and put more focus on the door. Also make it more obvious when it is locked or unlocked - or even just open it instead of just unlocking!

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1471205/mapsfeedback/pl_bunkerdash_a40011.jpg
    One way door was annoying. Also why do blue have easier access to height advantage in this area? It seems like red has only a small area to defend from while blue can raindown bombs+rockets from above

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1471205/mapsfeedback/pl_bunkerdash_a40012.jpg
    Another random hole

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1471205/mapsfeedback/pl_bunkerdash_a40013.jpg
    This needs playerclipping

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1471205/mapsfeedback/pl_bunkerdash_a40014.jpg
    Seems like a very steep climb for blue

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1471205/mapsfeedback/pl_bunkerdash_a40015.jpg
    This rail should go, it's just obstructive

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1471205/mapsfeedback/pl_bunkerdash_a40016.jpg
    This sign blocking that spawn door seems quite ridiculous when red could really do with a flanking option.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1471205/mapsfeedback/pl_bunkerdash_a40017.jpg
    Seems prone to spam from red while blue are pushing upwards. Might be a good thing though, means blue have to work harder.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1471205/mapsfeedback/pl_bunkerdash_a40018.jpg
    Cart turns around...

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1471205/mapsfeedback/pl_bunkerdash_a40019.jpg
    ... then spazzes out.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1471205/mapsfeedback/pl_bunkerdash_a40020.jpg
    It's not nice not being able to see out of spawn during set up. At least turn these into the gate props!

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1471205/mapsfeedback/pl_bunkerdash_a40021.jpg
    HL2 texture?

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1471205/mapsfeedback/pl_bunkerdash_a40022.jpg
    Once again, blue has an option to get above and behind red's defence very easily and kill them from both directions. Not good. There's very little risk for the reward you get.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1471205/mapsfeedback/pl_bunkerdash_a40023.jpg
    Not the most ambitious of capture points.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1471205/mapsfeedback/pl_bunkerdash_a40024.jpg
    This is a horrible spawn exit, very easily spammed and hard to tell where you are.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1471205/mapsfeedback/pl_bunkerdash_a40025.jpg
    Again, make it very obvious which track the payload is following!

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1471205/mapsfeedback/pl_bunkerdash_a40026.jpg
    I didn't understand the points of these rooms, they just seems to be there for the sake of existing.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1471205/mapsfeedback/pl_bunkerdash_a40027.jpg
    Big crazy hole needs covering up :3


    Overall i'm fairly impressed with the map, it really made me smile in some places. Major things to think about are:
    • Spawn gates should be opened, not just unlocked
    • Doors that unlock as the cart progresses should be more obvious that they've opened
    • Blue should not be able to reach height and cover more easily than red, especially when that height then allows blue to flank easily
    • It should always be very obvious where the payload is going - ambiguous tracks that go in other directions confuse players!
     
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    Last edited: Sep 12, 2010
  10. Karnage

    Karnage L3: Member

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    Thank you very much StickZer0! This is just what I needed :) Unfortunately I won't be working on this for about a month due to exams, but as soon as they're over I'll get these things sorted! Great advice
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  11. Karnage

    Karnage L3: Member

    Messages:
    114
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    49
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2010
  12. alecom

    alecom L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

    Messages:
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    Blu's respawn time is much too long, shorten it now!
    This is a multistage map, and each stage only has two points. Red does NOT need a forward spawn, especially for a first stage.


    If you ever implement something like this another time however, sneaky routes for blu that end up just above red's spawn = BAD
    encouraging spawncamping in general = BAD
    [​IMG]

    Here we see red's forward spawn is IN FRONT of the point! What the hec man?!
    Nothing short of a shabby disorganized steamrolled red will be a plausable capture. Doesn't help with blu's spawn time either ;)
    [​IMG]

    You probably just forgot to clip this and give the fencing, but I'm just pointing it out to be sure.
    [​IMG]

    This is a bit of an awkward exit. I'm hoping you will be getting rid of the forward spawn anyway :p
    But yeah, you should only really have the one door there, as they go to exactly the same place.
    [​IMG]

    This is something you should not do, 4 different doors, no indication of where to exit out of.
    [​IMG]

    This felt a bit of a strong spot for blu, though they didn't really utilise it much in our game.
    [​IMG]

    This area was hard for blu to control and make use of. Red could have complete control over this building, as they would be hanging around this spot anyway, and then they have multiple entries to the building to close it down. Blu only has that one chokey route up top.
    [​IMG]

    Here are my proposed changes!
    Red crossy-out bits are SCRAP. except for the ones that are stairs :p
    Blue is meant to outline new buildings. The light blue rectangles are meant to be windows, with the purple dotted being the shooting.
    Purple arrows show the new flow.
    [​IMG]



    I hope I have helped, and that you take at least some of my suggestions in to consideration. Also, fix those damn doors in stage 2! I want them quadruple checked before you enter the map in to the next game day!
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  13. Karnage

    Karnage L3: Member

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    Thanks alecom! Seriously appreciated
     
  14. Mr.Late

    Mr.Late L7: Fancy Member

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    [1] Steps for giants? :D

    [2] I don't know, it was quite hard to defend the starting area... What do you think?

    [3] Clip these kind of stuff :p

    It looked okay and it played pretty well, but 20 second spawn time for blu seems a bit too much for me :D
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  15. Karnage

    Karnage L3: Member

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    thanks a bunch Mr Late
     
  16. J4CK8

    J4CK8 L11: Posh Member

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    Stairs need clipping just outside BLU spawn (up the large set of stairs in spawn). The stairs in spawn could do with a new texture that differs from the walls. Stickies can be stuck to the orange spawn gates. Make sure "only once" is ticked on the ouput that adds time to the second stage cp to stop the time being added everytime. Maybe just me, but clip the cap B sign at the very end of the track so you dont get caught on it? I tried to strafe while pushing the cart and got stuck on it twice.

    Other than that, seems pretty well balanced for the first stage at least. Second is hard to tell with the extra time we kept getting :p
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  17. Wilson

    aa Wilson Founder of Wankhouse

    Messages:
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    Positive Ratings:
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    ISSUES

    - The door at start of stage 1 needs somekind indicator that it won't open.
    - Stage 1 start felt like steamroll for blue.
    - Stage 2 last point is way too easy to defend, it needs more effective flank route.
    - The scout only health pack is just stupid and should be made normal health kit.

    Also:

    [​IMG]
    Make this pipe solid.
     
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  18. Mr.Late

    Mr.Late L7: Fancy Member

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    What is that pipe anyway??

    Well, 1st stage 1st point could have been a bit easier to defend. But it wasn't a steamroll and 1st point shouldn't be too hard to capture. (Teams always have a huge impact on map's balance, steamroll on 1st point might happened just because of teams) 2nd point, well, maybe you need a sideroute to evade the choke (just where the cart turns and starts to go up). You can use the upper route though... I don't know... :D

    [1] That place on 2nd stage was a bit too spammy. There was a flanking route though, which lead straight behind last point. People didn't use that very often though, you should make it easier to spot. And move that 100% healthkit :D
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  19. Karnage

    Karnage L3: Member

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    The pipe was kind of a place holder for some aesthetics, and it's also a sort of continuity from the first round. I'll try some new things on that corner up to the second point in round 1, and the second point on round 2 needs the same sort of attention. Thanks!
    Thank you Wankhouse :) You're right - that door really needs a no entry sign when closed. I'm still not sure about round 1, but I think that climb to point B needs changing again
    I'll move that healthkit :p couldn't believe how much hate it got haha. As I said to Mr Late, the second point in round 2 will get a more appropriate secondary route. The pipe you screenshotted will have more meaning later.. if players can jump to it and walk up and down it could it be a problem? I guess not, and it would be funny to see people fail jump and fall to their deaths

    In round 2? I can't think of which sign you're talking about but I'll probably find it. Thanks so much for all those other things you pointed out!
     
  20. Godslayer57

    Godslayer57 L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Let me see.
    - add a flanking route around the area near the scout health pack as the attackers were easily trapped there by the other team and the sentries
    -Remove that Full health kit, as it made me rage alot as its one class only, and no one really ever used it
     
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