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  1. Arnold

    Arnold L6: Sharp Member

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    Last edited: Sep 3, 2011
  2. radon

    radon L1: Registered

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    I think this would break the game mechanic a bit. Imagine someone who sees the CP on the third screenshot and wants to reach it.
    While trying to go underwater, he gets killed by a demoman's sticky. He most likely will accuse the map design for his death, since there wasn't so much chance for him to dodge this attack, because he was unmobilized while under water.

    The fourth shot reminds me of gullywash with the central cp being only accessible by demoman or soldier who can reach higher ground. This is really a bad idea, since every non-soldier/demoman/*class-who-can-reach-this-area* will hate you or the map for that.
    There also has been a good reason for the gullywash's author to change that fact to a normal cp some releases later.

    Long story short, keep in mind, that people want to fight player vs. player and not player vs. environment. The more control a player has over his movement and mobility, the more a skilled player will like the map.
    And if these "special" gameplay elements are what makes the map special, I'd strongly suggest to re-think your concept.

    /imho
     
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  3. Beetle

    Beetle L9: Fashionable Member

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    I agree with radon.
     
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  4. Arnold

    Arnold L6: Sharp Member

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    Well i created gullywash, and the middle cp hole is only accessible for demoman, soldiers or scouts, the sides are accessible to anyone.

    Now making a map interesting is using the enviroment, not player vs player, nobody really cares about deathmatch that much. Using the enviroment and it's variables to your and your teams advantage makes for a lot more interesting games.

    Anyway like i said it's first alpha I'd first like to see some games played before i state my opinion and so should you.
     
  5. Beetle

    Beetle L9: Fashionable Member

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    You're right - when I see a gameday announcement that has your map in it I'll drop in and give real feedback.
     
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  6. REEJ

    REEJ L7: Fancy Member

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    whatever you do to this map, don't change the name
    it's full of awesomeness
     
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  7. red_flame586

    red_flame586 L7: Fancy Member

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    Overall, interesting design, but I agree with others, you shouldn't build a map player vs environment, if you want to do that, try with a single player game like half life or portal. Multilayer games are meant to be player vs player. Maybe on the point in the fourth screenshot you could put a ramp or a bridge or something still giving an advantage to soldiers and demomen, but still allowing other, less skilled players with other classes who may not be able to rocket jump or sticky bomb that well, to get up there as well. Apart from that, the map looks pretty good, maybe a few to long a sightlines except I like your use of ramps as cover, so overall, good job, and we'll have to see how it plays out.

    EDIT: After the play test today, and after much confusion, I finally realised how the middle point worked, sorry for that, but you probably should make it a bit more obvious
     
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    Last edited: Oct 2, 2010
  8. Terwonick

    Terwonick L6: Sharp Member

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    it seems to me that the circled (red) areas are the capture points, though I'm unsure if the middle (green) is also a capture point.

    [​IMG]

    sorry, forgot to include the pic in the original post :p
     
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    Last edited: Oct 1, 2010
  9. Dark

    Dark L4: Comfortable Member

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    I took me about 15 minutes to realise the where the middle point was >.>
    I think thay you should make it more obviouly point by putting hazerd strips around the cap area and maybe adding another hole in the cliff from the side people walk in from so they can plianly see the point.
     
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  10. Sergis

    aa Sergis L666: ])oo]v[

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  11. Arnold

    Arnold L6: Sharp Member

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    @Terwonick

    You are right, those are capture zones, the green is also a capture zone although I'm still not sure if i will keep it or not.

    @Dark

    I'll try to make it more noticeable, probably by rotating the middle a tad.
     
  12. Terwonick

    Terwonick L6: Sharp Member

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    it's pretty obvious, IT SAYS SO IN THE INFO POST and everybody who didn't read that has (insert mean phrase here)
     
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  13. Sergis

    aa Sergis L666: ])oo]v[

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    i dont know about everybody, but i downloaded the mappack, played the map and only now read the thread. and in any case, a map should be playable without needing a manual. hopefully when signs will be added, nonstandart stuff will be more obvious.
     
  14. Arnold

    Arnold L6: Sharp Member

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  15. honeymustard

    honeymustard L9: Fashionable Member

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    Looks good Arnold, loved gullywash of course, so I hope this plays just as well.
     
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  16. Tyker

    Tyker L5: Dapper Member

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    You said this is an experiment on how far you can take CPs, and I think you've taken mid and second too far. Second makes pyros useless and demomen overpowered (just stand on the point and put stickies on the walls around you, so if anyone comes up, boom).

    Middle is just not fun to play on. The cap can be blocked and you have no idea where it is blocked. Where you stand? On top? The other side? So you either have to get up there, as looking up does not reveal the entirety of the top, or run around to the other side while the other team gets ages to cap it.

    I think you should give second a way to reach while staying dry, and give third a way to see the entire cap area.
     
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  17. Wilson

    aa Wilson Founder of Wankhouse

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    All above!
    I think you should make middle cap zone go around the rock instead it begin on top and sides.
     
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  18. Godslayer57

    Godslayer57 L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Well for starters it kinda annoyed me that the point wasn't accessable normally and it took about 5 minutes t realise how it worked. Secondly that second cp is just 'evil' The inclosed space mixed with the water is kinda bad as you single out one class who is useless there. Otherwise other than that its played not to bad.

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Sergis

    aa Sergis L666: ])oo]v[

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    i was a pyro on point 2 and i could at least hold off a scout for 10 seconds :D
    but water sucks anyway because i dont see anything thru it and because it makes everyone as mobile as heavy
     
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  20. Arnold

    Arnold L6: Sharp Member

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    i'm not changing mid because I personally think it creates a very interesting dynamic.
    Why does it have to be a bad thing to decide wether you keep blocking the cp or you go around and kill the enemy but leaving them more time to cap.

    I might remove the ability to block from the top but i'm set on middle cp for the most part.

    I changed cp2, playtests will have to show what the effects are.
    I agree water is annoying but it can be an interesting strategic element, so i'll be trying to keep some water involving cp2.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    http://imgur.com/NT7vv.jpg
    http://imgur.com/fi9mm.jpg
    http://imgur.com/jLLGd.jpg
    http://imgur.com/QrVpN.jpg