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Alpine

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by NiklasU, May 4, 2009.

  1. NiklasU

    NiklasU L1: Registered

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    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]


    Update #4

    • performance improvement
    • made the tunnel exit bigger
      [​IMG]
    • placed a tree to hide snipers view
      [​IMG]
    • added some more lights in darker areas
      [​IMG]
    • added particel effects
    • bugs fixed


    Update #3 (The alpine update)

    • BIG performance improvement
    • MUCH MORE detail ...
    • ... and better looking trees
      (look at the screens below!)


    Update #2

    • performance improvement
    • added a shed for attacker's advantage
      [​IMG]
    • placed some more barriers to hide snipers' view
      [​IMG]
    • bugs fixed


    Update #1

    • Added a fully destructible chain bridge
      [​IMG]
    • Added a gate which can only be opened from the inside
      [​IMG]
    • Bugs fixed
    • Performance has been improved a bit (more improvement
      will come with the next update)


    v2.1.0

    Official server: 208.167.232.36:27015


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n-jLwiworY"]Trailer 2[/ame]
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnFzU-4xQt0"]Flythrough[/ame]
    Trailer
    IngameVideo


    Send questions and bug reports to mail2niklas@googlemail.com
    © by Games4Nik​
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2009
  2. Hanz

    aa Hanz Ravin' Rabbid

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    As I said in the other thread:

    It looks really good, but a few things:

    -Maybe you should change the name? Pl_Alpine isn't that very original, imo, maybe try find another one?

    -It looks very sniper friendly at that long bridge, I'm not sure, maybe it isn't, but it looks like that.

    -Maybe you can make the last point a bit more spectacular, now it looks really boring. :(

    I will play it if I have time! :D
     
  3. DJive

    aa DJive AdministratorCake or Death?

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    confused, is it Alpine? or Alpine | Out now?

    Looks nice although WAY too sniper friendly.
     
  4. NiklasU

    NiklasU L1: Registered

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    Alpine ... ^^
     
  5. DJive

    aa DJive AdministratorCake or Death?

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    Ah, gotta change name accordingly, editing to Alpine.

    For a first map this looks really nice, i haven't had a chance to run around it yet, but I'm impressed.
     
  6. NiklasU

    NiklasU L1: Registered

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    ______________________________________


    Ok guys, for all of you who want to betatest my map
    can take part at the TF2Maps beta tests on Suterday.
    Click here for more details.



    ______________________________________
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2009
  7. Ninjilla

    Ninjilla L7: Fancy Member

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    We played this at the twisted servers saturday night, the main problem was optimization. Everyone had VERY low FPS, mine dropped to about 30 in most areas, and I get a solid 70-75 in most other maps. Everyone elses was well below that. Layout wise, it was pretty Sniper friendly outside, and the inside buildings by the carts path made Engys pretty hard to kill. I think first step is to optimize though, then we can retest :)
     
  8. NiklasU

    NiklasU L1: Registered

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    Yeah I'll try it but I had some probs that the Areaportals didn't work on some
    doors or wondows (there haven't been lacks or func details around it).
    When I'll have still such problems I'll come back to you guys ;)
     
  9. flubber

    flubber L4: Comfortable Member

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    Ok so i'e just played a 24 on alpine, the map style is nice, pretty awesome but there's some major flaws in the gameplay.
    - The map is way too much sniper friendly, score of our snipers was twice for attacker and triple for the defense (and not the best sniper of the server). Too many straight line.
    - No sentry spot, there is almost no spot where an inge can build a correct base in order to slow or blocked blue team, i'm not talking about bunker that can not be taken but just places where the attack team must work together and use some ubers.
    - the final point is dramatic, the moment when the cart is in the only path the red team is stuck on the last point and can't do anything except for soldier and demo who can go by the upper acces
    [​IMG]
    The final path is way too small especially with the opening over it wich make it so easy for demo spamming and soldier ( i myself make 11 frags just falling over the blue team)
    [​IMG]
    - The upper acces is an open-bar for spawnkill (which is a problem also at the beginning of the map for the blue team especially the opposite building which is a sniper haven)having the red spawn on the side of the point make it just too easy to block and doesn't give the red team a chance to fight back(accepting the fact that the blue team passed the narrow corridor which never happens on 4 rounds).
    - The red team defenitively needs an alternate road to fight back.
    - The sniper tower inside the red team spawn is an awful idea since no one except another sniper can kill him since spy can't do their job.
    [​IMG]

    Bug found :
    Red spawn people get stuck at those two marker :
    [​IMG]
    TP can be build inside spawn which make it impossible to be destroy and sometimes (happens to me twice) block the way.
    [​IMG]

    Also the map needs a lot of optimisation, i did a vote just to check and around 68% of people were lagging.
     
    DJive thanked this.
  10. NiklasU

    NiklasU L1: Registered

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    Thx for all these bug reports and I'll see what I can do.
    Maybe someone could send me a msg etc. when a Alpine server
    is open that I can test the my
    map with other players, too ^^
    ___________________________________________________
    I'm also planing a bigger RED base (like in badwater) ... maybe then
    RED has more chance to defend.
    ___________________________________________________
    And in my opinion there are some places to build the sentry. Like
    in this Video ...
    especially because the engy is one of my favourite calsses ;)
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2009
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  11. NiklasU

    NiklasU L1: Registered

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    K... maybe I'll place a gate there which can only be opened
    from the indoor side, so red soldiers and demos can't rush over to
    blue ... hope that will be a solution
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2009
  12. Zanpa

    Zanpa L4: Comfortable Member

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    Why did you call it pl_Alpine, and not pl_alpine_b1 ?

    If you don't use the _b(x), what name will you give for the final version ?
    And some servers have issued with uppercase letters n map names...
     
  13. DontWannaName

    DontWannaName L3: Member

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    By the train thats behind the wood, you can get on top of the boards and get into the back of the fence. :)
     
  14. NiklasU

    NiklasU L1: Registered

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    thx ... I'll have a look on it.
     
  15. Termaximus

    Termaximus L5: Dapper Member

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    Played it during the 5-09-09 game day.

    Pros: Nice looking map so far. Overall like the layout. Seemed fairly balanced.
    Cons: Center area too sniper friendly. I had bad fps (less than 10), I run at 40+ on Valve maps for comparison.

    Keep up the good work. I look forward to future versions.
     
  16. NiklasU

    NiklasU L1: Registered

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    Ok after the beta test on the TF2Maps server I got a lot of feedback.
    Some of the guys, me too, thought that the perfromance is too bad ...
    I really read all tutorials of how to improve the performance ... and only
    the AreaPortals didn't work correctly (the props in the buildings are
    only shown when you are in the room and not when you look in it)
    In addition to that compiling the map dares about 3 days on my computer
    (Core2Due E6600 ... 3GB Ram) ... I don't know why???
    So I would need the help of a mapper who has already some experience
    who can have a look on my map and maybe improve it a bit.
    It has to be someone who I can trust and then to whom I can give
    the map source ... would be really really and really nice.

    You also can send me a pm or an e-mail to mail2niklas@googlemail.com
    Thx for those who can help
    Nik
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2009
  17. DJive

    aa DJive AdministratorCake or Death?

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    Hey Nik =)

    I went ahead and looked at the map quickly.. Things that i noticed.

    1300 props
    567 func_detail Brushes
    553 Normal brushes
    72 hints

    Props hurt FPS.. bad, a lot of props without VIS .. even worse. This is i think is your FPS problem. but on with the Screenshots.

    This is what your map looks like striped down to just nodraw and Displacements

    [​IMG]

    And without displacements

    [​IMG]

    None of your displacements have nodraw behind them. A displacement WILL NOT block VIS and will render everything behind it. You need to add nodraw behind your displacements. See Tutorials for Ideas in my Sig underneath *Displacements*

    Next Hints. I learned a while ago, not hinting your map is WAY BETTER then hinting it incorrectly.

    [​IMG]

    A lot are over lapping etc. for now i would remove them and work on getting nodraw brushes behind all your displacements and although its not to high, maybe tweak your prop count.
     
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  18. NiklasU

    NiklasU L1: Registered

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    thx for all the information ... I hope I can improve my map and also
    the compile speed ;)
    Then you may see my map next weekend to the second beta test ^^
    ______________________________________

    Oh yeah and ... how can I strip down my map to juyst nodraw ???

    _
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2009
  19. eerieone

    aa eerieone

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    prepare for impact

    Ok, this is going to be a long one.... get a tea, go to the toilet, call your friends and tell them you won´t be available for some weeks :)

    ok, let´s start

    1.you need to seperate your map in several boxes (blue=sky)
    now, you have one big box and thats part of the reason it takes ages to compile
    shift the bridgepart a little bit off, so it´s not visible from the other sections, build world geometry structures that break visibility between the different sections
    [​IMG]

    2.i´m not sure, but i had nodraw walls in cashworks, still i could see opjects on the other side of it (mat_wireframe 1), i prefer using skybox-texture just for sure
    [​IMG]

    3. Avoid diagonal worldbrushes, they completely mess up your visleafs, func_detail those
    func_detail everything that is not main geometry
    look at decompiled valvemaps to see how simple the underlying main geometry is without func_detail
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    4. viewdistance, viewdistance, viewdistance, make sure every object has that parameter calibrated. when it is on 0 it will be seen from everywhere
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    5. make sure every displacement outside the playfield is the _nodetail version of the blendgroundtograss texture. the decals might have only a small viewdistance, still it costs fps
    [​IMG]

    6. Aesthetically, this rock makes no sense on the middle of a bridge, why should it be there in the first place?
    [​IMG]

    7. i´m not sure about if this kills fps, but your water is unneccessarily deep, make it just as deep as necessary
    [​IMG]

    8. Fog, your fogdistance is 11000, cashworks is like 4000,
    the lower the distance, the earlier you can cut the viewdistance of an object
    for the sake of gameplay and fps, cut the length of you long distances
    i think from cp3 to cp4 on cashworks is the longest distance you can go with still tolerable fps. believe me, anything longer becomes bitchy
    [​IMG]

    9. viewdistance traintracks
    don´t ignore those, they need to be rendered and cost fps
    by default their viewdistance is 1800-2000 and thats fine. in your map, the are always there
    [​IMG]
    ......

    zat´s it

    so, imho, first you need to rework the layout a bit and cut it down in skybox-chunks, then func_detail everything that is not main geometry, work with areaportals for all main geometry buildings, then adjust viewdistance etc.

    a map of this size shouldn´t take more than 2 hours to compile with your rig

    hope that helps
     
    DJive thanked this.
  20. DJive

    aa DJive AdministratorCake or Death?

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    You dont want to do a -final. At this stage in your map just a regular -VIS NORMAL is more then perfect.

    Running through your map again *with your download that you provided* i noticed a large, large, large abundance of "cubemaps". Pretty much you only use them when you have a reflective service. To give you an idea.. my map im working on has over 2.1k brushes.. and i have 1 cubemap. Why? because i only have one thing that needs to be shinny *the gold*

    You should redo them the same way. 1 in each spawn room. 1 near gold and 1 near water etc. You don't need more then 1-2 in an open area. In an area with nothing reflective? none.

    There was also a lot of 6 sided displacements. Displacements should only be 1 side.

    Oh

    Also your map is in a box. Term being its just surrounded by a large box skybox brush.

    What this does for compiles times is ... CRAAZZZY because it means it renders everything at every angle because the box is around the map.. it needs to know what the bottom looks like etc.

    You need to create a skybox AROUND your map, As an example here is a shot from the map im working on.

    Without the skybox..

    [​IMG]

    Then enclosed with a sky

    [​IMG]

    Notice how the sky follows the corner of the map. This means it wont render the side no one ever sees, and it will not render the bottom that no one will ever see.

    You need to do this however remember that displacements do_not_block_vis. which means you need to make sure your bottom of your map is sealed with nodraw, otherwise if you do this currently you will have a leak.


    Drop your cubemap count by about 90% and fix your skybox..box you should be right where you want to be =) a few hour compile!

    *nice post Eerieone!